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Lars Eighner
*nix forums addict
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 64
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 Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:29 am Post subject:
When ports are at war
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When ports go to war, this is what happens:
x11-toolkits/py-gnome-extras depends on libgda2.
editors/gnome2-office depends on libgda3.
You can't have both.
This is what happens when a project gets busy devoting itself to
a bunch of religious nutcases who just have to have a cartoon
of a demon removed from everything.
--
Lars Eighner SAVE BEASTIE!
eighner@io.com http://larseighner.com/
TIP: double quote a command name at the bash prompt to ignore any aliasing you
may have set. Don't include switches in the quotes. Ex: #"ls" -R |
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Michel Talon
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject:
Re: When ports are at war
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Lars Eighner <usenet@larseighner.com> wrote:
| Quote: | When ports go to war, this is what happens:
x11-toolkits/py-gnome-extras depends on libgda2.
editors/gnome2-office depends on libgda3.
You can't have both.
This is what happens when a project gets busy devoting itself to
a bunch of religious nutcases who just have to have a cartoon
of a demon removed from everything.
|
As much as i like BEASTIE i doubt it is the loss of daemonic influences
that lead to such port errors! When a project manages 15 000 ports, it
is *very* difficult to keep everything in working order. You have to take into
account that FreeBSD and Debian have order of magnitude better port coverage
than any other free system, and then accept some ensuing problems with both.
--
Michel TALON |
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Mike Scott
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 138
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject:
Re: When ports are at war
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Michel Talon wrote:
| Quote: | Lars Eighner <usenet@larseighner.com> wrote:
When ports go to war, this is what happens:
x11-toolkits/py-gnome-extras depends on libgda2.
editors/gnome2-office depends on libgda3.
You can't have both.
This is what happens when a project gets busy devoting itself to
a bunch of religious nutcases who just have to have a cartoon
of a demon removed from everything.
As much as i like BEASTIE i doubt it is the loss of daemonic influences
that lead to such port errors! When a project manages 15 000 ports, it
is *very* difficult to keep everything in working order. You have to take into
account that FreeBSD and Debian have order of magnitude better port coverage
than any other free system, and then accept some ensuing problems with both.
Problems which are avoidable. IMO anything that dumps everything from a |
wide number of maintainers into a single directory is going to be
unmanageable in the long run, if only because of name clashes.
--
Please use the corrected version of the address below for replies.
Replies to the header address will be junked, as will mail from
various domains listed at www.scottsonline.org.uk
Mike Scott Harlow Essex England.(unet -a-t- scottsonline.org.uk) |
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Michel Talon
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:35 pm Post subject:
Re: When ports are at war
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Mike Scott <usenet.10@spam.stopper.scottsonline.org.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
Problems which are avoidable. IMO anything that dumps everything from a
wide number of maintainers into a single directory is going to be
unmanageable in the long run, if only because of name clashes.
|
Frankly, between a system which covers 5000 ports and another which covers
15000 ports, my choice is immediate. If there is some problem i try to fix it
myself, but for me wide coverage is of high value, while so-called "stability"
is not. Each one has his priorities, and chooses his system accordingly.
--
Michel Talon |
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Derek Kuliński / takeda
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:17 am Post subject:
Re: When ports are at war
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On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:07:00 +0000 (UTC), Michel Talon wrote:
| Quote: | When ports go to war, this is what happens:
x11-toolkits/py-gnome-extras depends on libgda2.
editors/gnome2-office depends on libgda3.
You can't have both.
This is what happens when a project gets busy devoting itself to
a bunch of religious nutcases who just have to have a cartoon
of a demon removed from everything.
As much as i like BEASTIE i doubt it is the loss of daemonic influences
that lead to such port errors! When a project manages 15 000 ports, it
is *very* difficult to keep everything in working order. You have to take into
account that FreeBSD and Debian have order of magnitude better port coverage
than any other free system, and then accept some ensuing problems with both.
|
I think he is just trolling, my editors/gnome2-office doesn't even depend
on libgda3:
| [chinatsu]:/usr/ports/editors/gnome2-office> make all-depends-list|grep gda
| [chinatsu]:/usr/ports/editors/gnome2-office>
--
ダレック
takeda@IRCnet.EFnet, ICQ# 15827691, YahooIM: takeda64
http://ircwiki.takeda.tk - strona wiki poświęcona IRC |
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Conrad J. Sabatier
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:48 am Post subject:
Re: When ports are at war
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Derek Kuliński / takeda (d.kulinski@gmail.com) wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:07:00 +0000 (UTC), Michel Talon wrote:
When ports go to war, this is what happens:
x11-toolkits/py-gnome-extras depends on libgda2.
editors/gnome2-office depends on libgda3.
You can't have both.
This is what happens when a project gets busy devoting itself to
a bunch of religious nutcases who just have to have a cartoon
of a demon removed from everything.
|
Oh, come on now. I'm assuming you're merely being facetious here, but
comments such as these are a great way to alienate those who have
devoted a great deal of their energies to the FreeBSD project in one
form or another, and will buy you little in the way of sympathy or
support.
| Quote: | As much as i like BEASTIE i doubt it is the loss of daemonic
influences that lead to such port errors! When a project manages 15
000 ports, it is *very* difficult to keep everything in working
order. You have to take into account that FreeBSD and Debian have
order of magnitude better port coverage than any other free system,
and then accept some ensuing problems with both.
I think he is just trolling, my editors/gnome2-office doesn't even
depend on libgda3:
| [chinatsu]:/usr/ports/editors/gnome2-office> make
| [all-depends-list|grep gda
| [chinatsu]:/usr/ports/editors/gnome2-office
|
No, not a troll. I encountered the same conflict recently. As luck
would have it, though, one of the dependencies was, in
actuality, "stale" (although not formally so, in the sense
that 'pkgdb -F' would detect it as such). So then, simply deleting
the "stale" version of libgda saved the day with a minimum of fuss.
Problems such as these are really exceedingly rare, considering the huge
number of packages in the ports collection. A statistical analysis of
some sort would probably be quite an eye-opener, i.e., yielding a
startling low proportion of conflicts and other problems vs.
problem-free ports.
--
Conrad J. Sabatier <conrads@cox.net> -- "In Unix veritas" |
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Mike Scott
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 138
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:04 am Post subject:
Re: When ports are at war
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talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Scott <usenet.10@spam.stopper.scottsonline.org.uk> wrote:
Problems which are avoidable. IMO anything that dumps everything from a
wide number of maintainers into a single directory is going to be
unmanageable in the long run, if only because of name clashes.
Frankly, between a system which covers 5000 ports and another which covers
15000 ports, my choice is immediate. If there is some problem i try to fix it
myself, but for me wide coverage is of high value, while so-called "stability"
is not. Each one has his priorities, and chooses his system accordingly.
I'm not sure of the point you're making there. |
The background to my comment was the way we ran the system maybe 15
years or so ago on a network of Sun's. System management was
distributed, and package management more so; company management hadn't a
clue. So there was no earthly way of coordinating to have everything in
a common /usr/local/bin type of scheme.
The solution we adopted was based on some ideas by Andrew Findlay, iirc,
of I think Essex University. We kept each package in its own directory
tree, with binary directories for whatever architectures and OS versions
the maintainer deemed appropriate; a master plus as many slaved copies
as desired on various nfs servers. The automounter was used to mount as
needed, and a /very/ arcane shell script sorted out PATH modifications
and ran initialization scripts as needed. The user had to make an
incantation like "use ThisPackage", which would do the necessary. In
some ways it was very clumsy, but it killed name and version clashes
stone dead - unless they were genuinely irreconcilable. It also meant
package maintainers didn't have to have root privileges (although
security issues were different from nowadays, I guess).
Possibly a matter of taste/opinion (and certainly that design owed a lot
to the high price of storage back then), but I don't see that the
present ports system scales very well at all - and while the OP's
wording may not be the most helpful, I do believe he has a point.
--
Please use the corrected version of the address below for replies.
Replies to the header address will be junked, as will mail from
various domains listed at www.scottsonline.org.uk
Mike Scott Harlow Essex England.(unet -a-t- scottsonline.org.uk) |
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Christopher Nehren
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 262
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:29 am Post subject:
Re: When ports are at war
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On 2006-07-18, Derek Kuli?ski / takeda scribbled these
curious markings:
| Quote: | I think he is just trolling, my editors/gnome2-office doesn't even depend
on libgda3:
| [chinatsu]:/usr/ports/editors/gnome2-office> make all-depends-list|grep gda
| [chinatsu]:/usr/ports/editors/gnome2-office
|
That's because you didn't build your gnumeric with libgda3 support. I
noticed this when I wanted to install libgdamm (before I got fed up with
the shoddy state of documentation that the entire libgnomedb project
seems to have, and decided to write my own ORM in C++) and the build
died trying to install libgda2 because I had previously installed a
fully-functional gnumeric.
Best Regards,
Christopher Nehren |
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Derek Kuliński / takeda
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:37 pm Post subject:
Re: When ports are at war
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On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:29:53 GMT, Christopher Nehren wrote:
| Quote: | | [chinatsu]:/usr/ports/editors/gnome2-office> make all-depends-list|grep gda
| [chinatsu]:/usr/ports/editors/gnome2-office
That's because you didn't build your gnumeric with libgda3 support. I
noticed this when I wanted to install libgdamm (before I got fed up with
the shoddy state of documentation that the entire libgnomedb project
seems to have, and decided to write my own ORM in C++) and the build
died trying to install libgda2 because I had previously installed a
fully-functional gnumeric.
|
Ok, but does it still happen or somebody fixed it?
It looks like this kind of problems are really hard to spot.
--
ダレック
takeda@IRCnet.EFnet, ICQ# 15827691, YahooIM: takeda64
http://ircwiki.takeda.tk - strona wiki poświęcona IRC |
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