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houghi
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 6233
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 Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:39 pm Post subject:
Re: MacBook Pro
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Robert wrote:
| Quote: | Still, for those who dislike Microsoft's business ethics, it's a viable
choice.
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So is suicide.
| Quote: | Linux is still for geeks, unfortunately. It will gradually enter into the
work-place to end-users much much more as things get better though. Yippee.
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No, Linux is not only for geeks. Many people work with Linux that are
absolutely not geeks. The big difference is that people compare aplles
and oranges.
Windows machine? Pre-installed and several years pavlovian training of
what buttons to press.
Apples cases? Pre-installed
Linux boxen? A lot of fud from others and *NOT* pre-installed.
Give a person a pre-installed system and he or she will be able to use
it much faster then he or she was able to do with Windows. The complete
computer N00b is the best to start with Linux, because (s)he has not yet
'learned' anything, so does not need to unlearn things.
People who have real knowledge of Windows, also will not have any
problem, because they will have insight in how a computer in general
will function and see the goal they want to achieve.
Then there are the wanna-bees. The people who think they know computers.
The peope the N00bs go to when their PC is crashed. The people who have
no idea what Linux is capable of. The people who are afraid to admit
they don't know anything about it.
You could compare them to the minor league coaches who think they coach
major league (http://www.break.com/index/minorleague28.html) Enough
knowlde to sound as if they know stuff, not enough to realy base
anything on.
Give that person a pre-installed system and he must either admid that he
was wrong or will be converted.
--
houghi
How do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Iraq?
How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake? |
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Robert
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:32 am Post subject:
Re: MacBook Pro
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"houghi" <houghi@houghi.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrnead28u.kbi.houghi@penne.houghi...
| Quote: | No, Linux is not only for geeks. Many people work with Linux that are
absolutely not geeks. The big difference is that people compare aplles
and oranges.
Windows machine? Pre-installed and several years pavlovian training of
what buttons to press.
Apples cases? Pre-installed
Linux boxen? A lot of fud from others and *NOT* pre-installed.
Give a person a pre-installed system and he or she will be able to use
it much faster then he or she was able to do with Windows. The complete
computer N00b is the best to start with Linux, because (s)he has not yet
'learned' anything, so does not need to unlearn things.
People who have real knowledge of Windows, also will not have any
problem, because they will have insight in how a computer in general
will function and see the goal they want to achieve.
Then there are the wanna-bees. The people who think they know computers.
The peope the N00bs go to when their PC is crashed. The people who have
no idea what Linux is capable of. The people who are afraid to admit
they don't know anything about it.
You could compare them to the minor league coaches who think they coach
major league (http://www.break.com/index/minorleague28.html) Enough
knowlde to sound as if they know stuff, not enough to realy base
anything on.
Give that person a pre-installed system and he must either admid that he
was wrong or will be converted.
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If that's your view, fair enough. But I believe it's incorrect; many
workplaces I have visited in my time have tried linux - but it's buggy and
has issues. For servers, it's great. But you'll probably be aware most
businesses use Red Hat products, I see very few Suse implementations in my
travels.
For end-users, it's not really the unlearning that's required, it's a whole
host of other things. The linux dependancy issue is a complete shambles, and
this should have been sorted a long time ago - people can re-install linux
because they've shafted their machine installing an RPM, that really isn't
efficient. Everybody makes mistakes, and an operating system should be able
to recover from it.
There's a whole host of other issues that still make businesses choose
Microsoft products. I read the reasons why they, in the end, choose this
option on paper many days of each week, and I have to say the reasons they
give are viable. Unless you're paying for linux licenses (which definitely
pisses off Linus Torvalds!) then decent donations to a linux distribution
team are the only way to rapidly accelerate the evolution of the various
operating systems.
I would like it if every business took the plunge, because in the end it
would be possible iron out issues. But if everything was so fantastic,
efficient, and easy for everyone involved, then all businesses would not
even consider Microsoft products for a moment - and there lies the issue.
It's actually quite fiddly. I've worked with computers for years upon years,
linux is still fiddly, and it can whip your brain sometimes. I read some of
the posts here - as an experienced linux user - and scratch my head. I can
honestly say that because products are tested (apparently) thoroughly on
Microsoft o/s's it's usually simple to find the underlying issue straight
away.
Let's hope Linux distros get better and better, but it will still be at
least 5 years before companies are willing to give it a chance, especially
with their stringent requirements for selected software packages. Schools
are beginning to teach on a Linux-basis in some areas, which is a good
start. Finger's crossed. |
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 723
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:47 am Post subject:
Re: MacBook Pro
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In article <lhNpg.16245$1g.1722@newsfe1-win.ntli.net>,
"Robert" <robert_NOSPAM@ntlworld.com> wrote:
| Quote: | The linux dependancy issue is a complete shambles, and
this should have been sorted a long time ago - people can re-install linux
because they've shafted their machine installing an RPM, that really isn't
efficient
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I've never come across the need to do a complete Linux reinstall just to
fix a simple mistake. |
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Rick Moen
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:10 pm Post subject:
Re: MacBook Pro
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Anthony Edwards <usenet@catfish.nildram.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:20:46 -0400, Darrell Stec
darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote:
Isn't OS X really a Linux in disguise but separating the user from
actually being able to control anything?
OS X is based on Darwin, which in turn is based on FreeBSD 5 and Mach
3.0:
http://www.opendarwin.org/
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Man, they really have done a propaganda job on that FreeBSD thing, ever
since they hired Jordan Hubbard and a number of other FreeBSD core team
committers from failing Wind River.
The fact of the matter is that OS X is a direct descendant of _NeXTStep_,
NeXT, Inc's 4.2BSD-derived proprietary Unix. (4.2BSD of course
considerably predated FreeBSD.) The xnu kernel underlying NeXTStep and
OS X was originally built from permanently melding very much modified
Mach 2.5 sources with an upper BSD-API layer, such that it's no longer a
microkernel (Mach's defining characteristic) and has for its entire
history been a monolithic kernel, instead.
That kernel is _not_ FreeBSD, though some code borrowings from FreeBSD
5.x/6.x CVS have been used to update some of the upper-layer routines,
and the borrowed Mach code refreshed from Mach 3.0. The userspace is
still pretty peculiar for a BSD, but likewise has been updated to bring
it in line with modern BSDs.
Darwin is the subset of OS X that Apple open-sourced under APSL, plus
upstream open-sourced apps that are included in both Darwin and OS X.
And, by the way, the xnu extensions required to function on Intel CPUs
were quietly taken proprietary, a bit earlier this year, so the Darwin /
OS X kernel is no longer open source (except on the legacy PPC platform). |
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