RFC: Why not move kernel MD code to sys/arch/?

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RFC: Why not move kernel MD code to sys/arch/?

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Peter Wemm
*nix forums Guru Wannabe

Joined: 11 Apr 2002
Posts: 113

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:20 pm Post subject: Note

Re: RFC: Why not move kernel MD code to sys/arch/?

On Monday 14 November 2005 12:47 am, Xin LI wrote:

Quote:

On 11/13/05, Scott Long <scottl@samsco.org> wrote:
[snip]

Well, it should have been done with alpha was added in 1998, so
it's only 7 years too late =-) If we were to ever restart the repo
like we did with ncvs for FreeBSD 2.0, it could be done.
Otherwise, it is

Thanks for the explaination.

BTW. Shall having arch/foo for new libraries be considered preferred,
if they have MD code?

I personally hate it. libpthread etc drive me crazy because they use
this.
--
Peter Wemm - peter@wemm.org; peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com
"All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5
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Bruce Evans
*nix forums Guru Wannabe

Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 190

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:02 pm Post subject: Note

Re: RFC: Why not move kernel MD code to sys/arch/?

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005, Daniel Eischen wrote:

Quote:

Is there any reason that we have sys/i386 and not sys/arch/i386? I
think the latter is a lot cleaner (and libpthread, etc. already has
their arch/[arch] directory on the other hand).

I think the former is a lot cleaner.

Quote:

FreeBSD started out as 386 only. It probably just wasn't envisioned
that we'd have more than just one or two archs.

FreeBSD-1 started with Net/2 which has numerous arches. I'm not sure
exactly what was in Net/2, but in 4.3-reno /sys is:

GENERIC.alltahoe/ machine@ tahoedist/
GENERIC.allvax/ mdec/ tahoeif/
cassette/ net/ tahoemath/
conf/ netimp/ tahoestand/
consolerl/ netinet/ tahoevba/
floppy/ netiso/ ufs/
hp300/ netns/ vax/
hpdev/ netrmp/ vaxbi/
hpstand/ nfs/ vaxdist/
hpux/ stand/ vaxif/
i386/ sys/ vaxmba/
kdb/ tahoe/ vaxstand/
kern/ tahoealign/ vaxuba/

More than half the directories here are arch-related, but there seem
to be only 3 arches with full support: hp300, tahoe and vax. The
directory tree was even flatter, with no important subdirs. The
hp300 directory was amazingly simple and clean:

DOC/ cons.h kgdb_stub.c oc_cksum.s trap.c
Locore.c cpu.h locore.s pcb.h trap.h
TODO dkbad.c machdep.c psl.h ufs_machdep.c
autoconf.c endian.h machlimits.h pte.h vectors.s
clock.c float.h machparam.h reg.h vm_machdep.c
clockioctl.h frame.h machtypes.h swapgeneric.c vmparam.h
clockreg.h genassym.c mem.c symbols.sort
conf.c in_cksum.c mtpr.h sys_machdep.c
cons.c isr.h ns_cksum.c tags

FreeBSD-2 started with 4.4BSD which has numerous arches:

compile/ isofs/ net/ nfs/ sys/
conf/ kern/ netccitt/ pmax/ tahoe/
dev/ libkern/ netinet/ scripts/ tests/
hp/ luna68k/ netiso/ sparc/ ufs/
hp300/ mips@ netns/ stand/ vax/
i386/ miscfs/ news3400/ stand.att/ vm/

Net/2 is actually more like this than 4.3-reno. Here there are 8
supported arches: hp300, i386, luna68k news3400, pmax, sparc, tahoe
and vax. I think only the older arches are fully supported here.
FreeBSD didn't import most of this, including for i386's -- it got
working i386 support from 386BSD via FreeBSD-1.

Quote:

I think this issue has been brought up in the past, and if it causes
a lot of pain or repo-bloat, they'll probably be some resistance.

It would only cause 100 times as much pain and repo-bloat as when it was
brought up ~10 years ago.

Bruce
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Takahashi Yoshihiro
*nix forums beginner

Joined: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 4

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:00 am Post subject: Note

Re: RFC: Why not move kernel MD code to sys/arch/?

In article <43782468.2090609@samsco.org>
Scott Long <scottl@samsco.org> writes:

Quote:

This discussion is 10 years too late. There would be a huge amount of
repo-churn that would happen. Also, the inevitible bikeshed happens
about totally reorganizing the kernel, which inevitably ends
inconclusively.

I'd personally love to see it, but it would be extremely disruptive.

Warner

Well, it should have been done with alpha was added in 1998, so it's
only 7 years too late =-)

pc98 was added in 1996 :)

---
TAKAHASHI Yoshihiro <nyan@jp.FreeBSD.org>
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Xin LI
*nix forums beginner

Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 44

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:47 am Post subject: Note

Re: RFC: Why not move kernel MD code to sys/arch/?

On 11/13/05, Scott Long <scottl@samsco.org> wrote:
[snip]

Quote:

Thanks for the explaination.

BTW. Shall having arch/foo for new libraries be considered preferred,
if they have MD code?

Cheers,
--
Xin LI <delphij@delphij.net> http://www.delphij.net

Scott Long
*nix forums Guru Wannabe

Joined: 16 Jun 2002
Posts: 167

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:45 am Post subject: Note

Re: RFC: Why not move kernel MD code to sys/arch/?

M. Warner Losh wrote:

Quote:

In message: <a78074950511130858n73f50708jabfbb18fda1af84c@mail.gmail.com
Xin LI <delphij@gmail.com> writes:
: Is there any reason that we have sys/i386 and not sys/arch/i386? I
: think the latter is a lot cleaner (and libpthread, etc. already has
: their arch/[arch] directory on the other hand).

This discussion is 10 years too late. There would be a huge amount of
repo-churn that would happen. Also, the inevitible bikeshed happens
about totally reorganizing the kernel, which inevitably ends
inconclusively.

I'd personally love to see it, but it would be extremely disruptive.

Warner

Well, it should have been done with alpha was added in 1998, so it's
only 7 years too late =-) If we were to ever restart the repo like we
did with ncvs for FreeBSD 2.0, it could be done. Otherwise, it is
too much pain and churn.

Scott
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M. Warner Losh
*nix forums Guru

Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 365

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:30 am Post subject: Re: RFC: Why not move kernel MD code to sys/arch/?

In message: <a78074950511130858n73f50708jabfbb18fda1af84c@mail.gmail.com> Xin LI <delphij@gmail.com> writes: : Is there any reason that we have sys/i386 and not sys/arch/i386? I : think the latter is a lot cleaner (and libpthread, etc. already has : their arch/[arch] directory on the other hand). This discussion is 10 years too late. There would be a huge amount of repo-churn that would happen. Also, the inevitible bikeshed happens about totally reorganizing the kernel, which inevitably ends inconclusively. I'd personally love to see it, but it would be extremely disruptive. Warner _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"

Garrett Wollman
*nix forums addict

Joined: 08 May 2002
Posts: 59

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:16 pm Post subject: Note

Re: RFC: Why not move kernel MD code to sys/arch/?

Xin Li writes:

Quote:

Is there any reason that we have sys/i386 and not sys/arch/i386? I
think the latter is a lot cleaner

"I think it's cleaner" is not good enough. What *technical* reason
can you come up with to make such a change? Keep in mind that we
decided not to do this several years ago, when there were only three
platforms to support. Now there are eight, with innumerably more
people and scripts used to the current layout.

-GAWollman

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Daniel Eischen
*nix forums addict

Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 68

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 6:46 pm Post subject: Note

Re: RFC: Why not move kernel MD code to sys/arch/?

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005, Xin LI wrote:

Quote:

Hi,

Is there any reason that we have sys/i386 and not sys/arch/i386? I
think the latter is a lot cleaner (and libpthread, etc. already has
their arch/[arch] directory on the other hand).

FreeBSD started out as 386 only. It probably just wasn't envisioned
that we'd have more than just one or two archs.

I think this issue has been brought up in the past, and if it causes
a lot of pain or repo-bloat, they'll probably be some resistance.

--
DE

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Xin LI
*nix forums beginner

Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 44

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:58 pm Post subject: RFC: Why not move kernel MD code to sys/arch/?

Hi, Is there any reason that we have sys/i386 and not sys/arch/i386? I think the latter is a lot cleaner (and libpthread, etc. already has their arch/[arch] directory on the other hand). Cheers, -- Xin LI <delphij@delphij.net> http://www.delphij.net

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