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Garance A Drosihn
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 190
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 Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 3:02 pm Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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At 9:21 AM +0200 6/13/02, Cyrille Lefevre wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, Jun 12, 2002, Garance A Drosihn wrote:
Hmm. It might be nice to have around as a port, but I don't
see why it would need to be in the base system. We just
maybe because they are required by SUSV3 :
http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/
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Strictly speaking, it is not a requirement.
That is not to say that I am against having it in the base
system, it's just that I don't think there is any groundswell
of demand for it, and there is nothing about it which implies
it must be a part of the base system. (if sccs needed some
kind of hooks into the kernel, for instance, then that would
imply it should be in the base OS). The program itself should
work just as fine as a port.
I do think it would be interesting to have somewhere, and I
myself see no stigma attached to having something as a port.
/usr/ports/posix, perhaps? :-)
So, think of my position as a weak vote for sccs as a port,
and being pretty close to neutral on having it in the base.
Opinions were asked for, and that is my opinion...
--
Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu
Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu
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Sheldon Hearn
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 3:14 pm Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:02:42 -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote:
| Quote: | So, think of my position as a weak vote for sccs as a port,
and being pretty close to neutral on having it in the base.
Opinions were asked for, and that is my opinion...
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So far, all the views expressed suggest that Mr Mallett should proceed
with his work on the utilities.
I think it's reasonable that the work can be done in the FreeBSD repo.
If it's later deemed necessary to move the software into the ports tree,
the work done will not have been done in vain, nor will its having been
done in the FreeBSD repo be of any concern.
Ciao,
Sheldon.
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Garrett Wollman
*nix forums addict
Joined: 08 May 2002
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 4:57 pm Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
In article <20020613072155.GA39353@gits.dyndns.org> you write:
| Quote: | maybe because they are required by SUSV3 :
http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/
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Irrelevant.
The Standard does not care how the utilities are packaged, only that
someone installing the operating system gets them if she asks.
- -GAWollman
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=b0mf
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Cyrille Lefevre
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 12 Jun 2002
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 5:18 pm Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 07:21:04AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote:
| Quote: | Sheldon Hearn wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:21:55 +0200, Cyrille Lefevre wrote:
Hmm. It might be nice to have around as a port, but I don't
see why it would need to be in the base system. We just
maybe because they are required by SUSV3 :
http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/
That's a bit misleading. The sccs utility is clearly marked as an XSI
extension.
Just like mmap().  .
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ls and ps are better examples since mmap is a syscall while the others
are command line utilities :P
Cyrille.
--
Cyrille Lefevre mailto:cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net
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Mark Valentine
*nix forums addict
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 62
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 5:25 pm Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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| Quote: | From: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman)
Date: Thu 13 Jun, 2002
Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System
maybe because they are required by SUSV3 :
http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/
Irrelevant.
The Standard does not care how the utilities are packaged, only that
someone installing the operating system gets them if she asks.
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I agree that this doesn't need to be a core part of FreeBSD. On the
other hand I feel it warrants being better integrated than a port,
for both historical and standards reasons.
That's to say, if it's installed, I'd like it to use the BSD makefiles
and live in /usr/bin. Also, I believe that certain standards-related
components like this warrant being supported by the project (albeit as
contrib material), and we do have a committer behind this one.
Currently, doing this requires that it go in the base system, but once
we've cracked the packaging of the base system I'd see it as a sub-package
of an optional XSI Extensions package, which probably wouldn't even be in
the default "BSD" package bundle.
If we could live with it being in the base system for now, but not have
people rely on it being there by default in future, importing it into
contrib wouldn't be too painful, would it?
Cheers,
Mark.
--
Mark Valentine, Thuvia Labs <mark@thuvia.co.uk> <http://www.thuvia.co.uk>
"Tigers will do ANYTHING for a tuna fish sandwich." Mark Valentine uses
"We're kind of stupid that way." *munch* *munch* and endorses FreeBSD
-- <http://www.calvinandhobbes.com> <http://www.freebsd.org>
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Cyrille Lefevre
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 12 Jun 2002
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 10:44:00PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote:
| Quote: | Rajappa Iyer wrote:
Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com> writes:
I agree. I'd like to be able to look at the changes and comments
in the historical BSD 4.2/4.3/4.4 source trees that you can buy
from Kirk, so that you can see *why* particular things happened,
rather than just *that* they happened.
Didn't RCS used to have an sccs2rcs command? I seem to recall that
the original version by Walter Tichy did have that utility.
I couldn't tell you. I know that FreeBSD doesn't have it now,
and FreeBSD has RCS as part of CVS.
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bip! /usr/src/contrib/cvs/contrib/sccs2rcs.in
Cyrille.
--
Cyrille Lefevre mailto:cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net
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Juli Mallett
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 12 Jun 2002
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 9:38 pm Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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* Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@starjuice.net> escriurères
| Quote: | On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:02:42 -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote:
So, think of my position as a weak vote for sccs as a port,
and being pretty close to neutral on having it in the base.
Opinions were asked for, and that is my opinion...
I think it's reasonable that the work can be done in the FreeBSD repo.
If it's later deemed necessary to move the software into the ports tree,
the work done will not have been done in vain, nor will its having been
done in the FreeBSD repo be of any concern.
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I have CVS files for it on freefall, I'm thinking maybe I should ask for them
to be surgically implanted into projects/sccs ?
That way I can try to drag all of you other committers into working on it, and
so on.
Does this sound reasonable?
--
Juli Mallett <jmallett@FreeBSD.org> FreeBSD: The Power To Serve
Perception is prejudice / Don't classify me / Accept me as me / Not what you see
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Juli Mallett
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 12 Jun 2002
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 9:40 pm Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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* Cyrille Lefevre <cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net> escriurères
| Quote: |
Just like mmap(). .
ls and ps are better examples since mmap is a syscall while the others
are command line utilities 
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Plus mmap(2) was an interface developed alongside BSD, if I'm recalling my
UNIX history right, though Sun shipped it before Berkeley did.
--
Juli Mallett <jmallett@FreeBSD.org> FreeBSD: The Power To Serve
Perception is prejudice / Don't classify me / Accept me as me / Not what you see
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Terry Lambert
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 19 Mar 2002
Posts: 434
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Terry Lambert
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 19 Mar 2002
Posts: 434
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:11 pm Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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Cyrille Lefevre wrote:
| Quote: | I couldn't tell you. I know that FreeBSD doesn't have it now,
and FreeBSD has RCS as part of CVS.
bip! /usr/src/contrib/cvs/contrib/sccs2rcs.in
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If that counts, then there are a heck of a lot of things that
FreeBSD "has" that aren't installed, including the ability to
build sendmail configuration files from m4 sources.
I think "which sccs2rcs" is a more accurate measure of whether
FreeBSD has it, or not. .
-- Terry
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Garance A Drosihn
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:34 pm Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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At 5:11 PM -0700 6/13/02, Terry Lambert wrote:
| Quote: | Cyrille Lefevre wrote:
I couldn't tell you. I know that FreeBSD doesn't have it now,
and FreeBSD has RCS as part of CVS.
bip! /usr/src/contrib/cvs/contrib/sccs2rcs.in
If that counts, then there are a heck of a lot of things that
FreeBSD "has" that aren't installed, including the ability to
build sendmail configuration files from m4 sources.
I think "which sccs2rcs" is a more accurate measure of whether
FreeBSD has it, or not. .
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You might want to try 'locate' instead:
/usr/share/examples/cvs/contrib/sccs2rcs
--
Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu
Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu
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Terry Lambert
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 19 Mar 2002
Posts: 434
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:54 pm Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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Garance A Drosihn wrote:
| Quote: | I think "which sccs2rcs" is a more accurate measure of whether
FreeBSD has it, or not. .
You might want to try 'locate' instead:
/usr/share/examples/cvs/contrib/sccs2rcs
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The only problem is, when I run it, it still complainst that it
can't find the command "sccs".
--- Terry
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Sheldon Hearn
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2002 5:26 am Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:38:18 MST, Juli Mallett wrote:
| Quote: | I think it's reasonable that the work can be done in the FreeBSD repo.
If it's later deemed necessary to move the software into the ports tree,
the work done will not have been done in vain, nor will its having been
done in the FreeBSD repo be of any concern.
I have CVS files for it on freefall, I'm thinking maybe I should ask for them
to be surgically implanted into projects/sccs ?
That way I can try to drag all of you other committers into working on it, and
so on.
Does this sound reasonable?
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I guess. I actually thought you'd be doing this in src itself, since
that's where sccs is already. But I think this is one of those things
where you can't lose either way.
If you go the projects/sccs route and you started with what's in
src/usr.bin/sccs, just make sure what goes in projects/sccs preserves
CVS history.
Ciao,
Sheldon.
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Juli Mallett
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 12 Jun 2002
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2002 5:30 am Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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* Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@starjuice.net> escriurères
| Quote: |
I guess. I actually thought you'd be doing this in src itself, since
that's where sccs is already. But I think this is one of those things
where you can't lose either way.
If you go the projects/sccs route and you started with what's in
src/usr.bin/sccs, just make sure what goes in projects/sccs preserves
CVS history.
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Well, if things are still up in the air about this, I'd rather work in the
projects area, and once people are happy with the code itself, revisit the
issue. If it's solid, it'll be easier to use the "neutral" stances taken
to justify a vendor import into src/contrib. Or so I think.
projects/sccs/sccscmds would come from my repo, projects/sccs/sccs would
come from ncvs.
Thanks.
--
Juli Mallett <jmallett@FreeBSD.org> FreeBSD: The Power To Serve
Perception is prejudice / Don't classify me / Accept me as me / Not what you see
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Sheldon Hearn
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2002 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:30:24 MST, Juli Mallett wrote:
| Quote: | Well, if things are still up in the air about this, I'd rather work in the
projects area, and once people are happy with the code itself, revisit the
issue. If it's solid, it'll be easier to use the "neutral" stances taken
to justify a vendor import into src/contrib. Or so I think.
projects/sccs/sccscmds would come from my repo, projects/sccs/sccs would
come from ncvs.
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Cool. Meetind adjourned. ;-)
Ciao,
Sheldon.
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