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Terry Lambert
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 19 Mar 2002
Posts: 434
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 Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2002 9:17 pm Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
| Quote: | On Wednesday, 12 June 2002 at 15:54:52 -0700, Juli Mallett wrote:
In my work as part of Mike Barcroft's team of people doing standards work
such as bringing utilities up to conformance, I decided to do necessary
bits to try to get SCCS in a form that could be brought into our source
tree. As it is right now, I have a version of CSRG SCCS that mostly works
but lacks a few standards-related options, and I have framework to bring a
Public Domain C++ SCCS implementation into the build.
My feeling is that SCCS is only of historical interest. It would be
nice to be able to access old SCCS files, but I can't imagine that
many people would want to use it for new work.
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I agree. I'd like to be able to look at the changes and comments
in the historical BSD 4.2/4.3/4.4 source trees that you can buy
from Kirk, so that you can see *why* particular things happened,
rather than just *that* they happened.
-- Terry
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Greg 'groggy' Lehey
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 12 Jun 2002
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2002 9:26 pm Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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On Wednesday, 12 June 2002 at 15:54:52 -0700, Juli Mallett wrote:
| Quote: | Hi there,
In my work as part of Mike Barcroft's team of people doing standards work
such as bringing utilities up to conformance, I decided to do necessary
bits to try to get SCCS in a form that could be brought into our source
tree. As it is right now, I have a version of CSRG SCCS that mostly works
but lacks a few standards-related options, and I have framework to bring a
Public Domain C++ SCCS implementation into the build.
I'm looking for architectural feedback not on either of those however, I am
writing because a number of people have said they simply do not want any
SCCS stuff in the base system. If the majority thinks this way, I will go
and remove src/usr.bin/{help,sccs} and abandon my efforts to bring something
into the source tree.
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My feeling is that SCCS is only of historical interest. It would be
nice to be able to access old SCCS files, but I can't imagine that
many people would want to use it for new work.
Greg
--
See complete headers for address and phone numbers
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Garance A Drosihn
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2002 10:45 pm Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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At 3:54 PM -0700 6/12/02, Juli Mallett wrote:
| Quote: | I'm looking for architectural feedback not on either of those
however, I am writing because a number of people have said
they simply do not want any SCCS stuff in the base system.
If the majority thinks this way, I will go and remove
src/usr.bin/{help,sccs} and abandon my efforts to bring
something into the source tree.
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Hmm. It might be nice to have around as a port, but I don't
see why it would need to be in the base system. We just
tossed perl *out* of the base system, and perl is a lot
more useful [in day-to-day work] than sccs would be.
In a different message, Terry Lambert wrote:
| Quote: | I'd like to be able to look at the changes and comments
in the historical BSD 4.2/4.3/4.4 source trees that you
can buy from Kirk, so that you can see *why* particular
things happened, rather than just *that* they happened.
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Perhaps the CD's should include the source for the port... :-)
[one that would compile and install on the current
FreeBSD's, and not just the source for the original sccs]
--
Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu
Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu
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Rajappa Iyer
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 2:27 am Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com> writes:
| Quote: | I agree. I'd like to be able to look at the changes and comments
in the historical BSD 4.2/4.3/4.4 source trees that you can buy
from Kirk, so that you can see *why* particular things happened,
rather than just *that* they happened.
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Didn't RCS used to have an sccs2rcs command? I seem to recall that
the original version by Walter Tichy did have that utility.
Rajappa
--
<rsi@panix.com> a.k.a. Rajappa Iyer.
They also surf who stand in the waves.
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Terry Lambert
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 19 Mar 2002
Posts: 434
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 3:33 am Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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Garance A Drosihn wrote:
| Quote: | In a different message, Terry Lambert wrote:
I'd like to be able to look at the changes and comments
in the historical BSD 4.2/4.3/4.4 source trees that you
can buy from Kirk, so that you can see *why* particular
things happened, rather than just *that* they happened.
Perhaps the CD's should include the source for the port... :-)
[one that would compile and install on the current
FreeBSD's, and not just the source for the original sccs]
|
The FreeBSD CD's, or the ones Kirk sells?
If the latter, feel free to suggest it to Kirk.
-- Terry
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Terry Lambert
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 19 Mar 2002
Posts: 434
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 3:44 am Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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Rajappa Iyer wrote:
| Quote: | Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com> writes:
I agree. I'd like to be able to look at the changes and comments
in the historical BSD 4.2/4.3/4.4 source trees that you can buy
from Kirk, so that you can see *why* particular things happened,
rather than just *that* they happened.
Didn't RCS used to have an sccs2rcs command? I seem to recall that
the original version by Walter Tichy did have that utility.
|
I couldn't tell you. I know that FreeBSD doesn't have it now,
and FreeBSD has RCS as part of CVS.
-- Terry
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Peter Jeremy
*nix forums addict
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 3:53 am Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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On 2002-Jun-13 00:27:59 -0400, Rajappa Iyer <rsi@panix.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com> writes:
I agree. I'd like to be able to look at the changes and comments
in the historical BSD 4.2/4.3/4.4 source trees that you can buy
from Kirk, so that you can see *why* particular things happened,
rather than just *that* they happened.
Didn't RCS used to have an sccs2rcs command? I seem to recall that
the original version by Walter Tichy did have that utility.
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I once had a quick look at it. It works through each SCCS revision
using sccs-get to extract the revision and then ci to add it to the
RCS repository (with some extra SCCS commands to extract and re-use
the log entries). It won't work unless you have working copies of
both SCCS and RCS installed. (The other downside is that you appear
to lose all the timestamps).
Writing a utility that read an SCCS repository and turned it directly
into an RCS repository (including all the original timestamps) would
be much nicer - and a lot of work.
Overall, I think SCCS should be a port. I agree with Terry that it's
unlikely to be ever used for anything other than looking through the
CSRG repository.
Peter
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Cyrille Lefevre
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 12 Jun 2002
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 5:21 am Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 08:45:35PM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote:
| Quote: | At 3:54 PM -0700 6/12/02, Juli Mallett wrote:
I'm looking for architectural feedback not on either of those
however, I am writing because a number of people have said
they simply do not want any SCCS stuff in the base system.
If the majority thinks this way, I will go and remove
src/usr.bin/{help,sccs} and abandon my efforts to bring
something into the source tree.
Hmm. It might be nice to have around as a port, but I don't
see why it would need to be in the base system. We just
|
maybe because they are required by SUSV3 :
http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/
| Quote: | tossed perl *out* of the base system, and perl is a lot
more useful [in day-to-day work] than sccs would be.
|
Cyrille.
--
Cyrille Lefevre mailto:cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net
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Bakul Shah
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 04 Jun 2002
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 5:23 am Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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| Quote: | Didn't RCS used to have an sccs2rcs command? I seem to recall that
the original version by Walter Tichy did have that utility.
|
Perhaps you are thinking of Kenneth Cox's sccs2rcs csh script
posted to comp.sources.misc in 1990 or so?
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Terry Lambert
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 19 Mar 2002
Posts: 434
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 5:34 am Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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Cyrille Lefevre wrote:
OK, you win.
| Quote: | tossed perl *out* of the base system, and perl is a lot
more useful [in day-to-day work] than sccs would be.
|
Sounds like the Perl camp needs to learn how to participate in
public standards processes, so that the next version of the
standard includes perl...
-- Terry
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Dag-Erling Smorgrav
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 23 Mar 2002
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 8:18 am Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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Juli Mallett <jmallett@FreeBSD.org> writes:
| Quote: | I'm looking for architectural feedback not on either of those however, I am
writing because a number of people have said they simply do not want any
SCCS stuff in the base system. If the majority thinks this way, I will go
and remove src/usr.bin/{help,sccs} and abandon my efforts to bring something
into the source tree.
|
No, please go ahead.
DES
--
Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org
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Sheldon Hearn
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:03 am Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:21:55 +0200, Cyrille Lefevre wrote:
| Quote: | Hmm. It might be nice to have around as a port, but I don't
see why it would need to be in the base system. We just
maybe because they are required by SUSV3 :
http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/
|
That's a bit misleading. The sccs utility is clearly marked as an XSI
extension.
Ciao,
Sheldon.
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Sheldon Hearn
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:38 am Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:03:24 +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote:
| Quote: | Hmm. It might be nice to have around as a port, but I don't
see why it would need to be in the base system. We just
maybe because they are required by SUSV3 :
http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/
That's a bit misleading. The sccs utility is clearly marked as an XSI
extension.
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I should have mentioned that I have no objection to the inclusion of
these utilities in the base system. I just wanted to clarify the status
of sccs with respect to the standard.
Ciao,
Sheldon.
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Terry Lambert
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 19 Mar 2002
Posts: 434
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 12:21 pm Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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Sheldon Hearn wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:21:55 +0200, Cyrille Lefevre wrote:
Hmm. It might be nice to have around as a port, but I don't
see why it would need to be in the base system. We just
maybe because they are required by SUSV3 :
http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/
That's a bit misleading. The sccs utility is clearly marked as an XSI
extension.
|
Just like mmap().  .
-- Terry
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Garance A Drosihn
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 3:02 pm Post subject:
Re: The Source Code Control System
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At 9:21 AM +0200 6/13/02, Cyrille Lefevre wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, Jun 12, 2002, Garance A Drosihn wrote:
Hmm. It might be nice to have around as a port, but I don't
see why it would need to be in the base system. We just
maybe because they are required by SUSV3 :
http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/
|
Strictly speaking, it is not a requirement.
That is not to say that I am against having it in the base
system, it's just that I don't think there is any groundswell
of demand for it, and there is nothing about it which implies
it must be a part of the base system. (if sccs needed some
kind of hooks into the kernel, for instance, then that would
imply it should be in the base OS). The program itself should
work just as fine as a port.
I do think it would be interesting to have somewhere, and I
myself see no stigma attached to having something as a port.
/usr/ports/posix, perhaps? :-)
So, think of my position as a weak vote for sccs as a port,
and being pretty close to neutral on having it in the base.
Opinions were asked for, and that is my opinion...
--
Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu
Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu
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