|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Z
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 163
|
 Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:21 am Post subject:
Re: BACKUP/IMAGE questions
|
|
|
tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | Should I use /NOALIAS?
|
The BACKUP document I use for reference (Chapter 7 in
OVMS_73_sys_util_ref1.pdf) explicitly says to use /NOALIAS on the
BACKUP/IMAGE command.
From p. 7-48 "Specifying the /IMAGE qualifier without also specifying
/NOALIAS can result in incomplete disk or file restore operations.
Therefore, Compaq strongly recommends that you specify /NOALIAS with
/IMAGE when performing image mode backup operations."
So I always use /NOALIAS. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Keith A. Lewis
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 103
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:54 pm Post subject:
Re: BACKUP/IMAGE questions
|
|
|
tadamsmar@yahoo.com writes in article <1107781228.898368.45180@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> dated 7 Feb 2005 05:00:28 -0800:
| Quote: | I am replacing disks on a system with a broken
tape drive.
The new disk is twice the capacity of the old.
1 gig to 2 gig, I think.
Is there any problem with using BACKUP/IMAGE
for a disk to disk copy in this situation?
|
Perfect.
| Quote: | Should I use /NOALIAS?
|
I don't think it will affect a /IMAGE backup, but I would leave it out when
going disk-to-disk anyway.
| Quote: | There is something in HELP BACKUP/IMAGE about
preservation of the cluster factor. Is that
a problem in this situation, going to a
larger disk.
|
You don't say what version of VMS. IIRC, VMS 7.2 (or was it 7.1-2?) had
support for smaller cluster factors but not as the system disk, which would
make it a problem. 7.3-1 has no problem with extra clusters.
| Quote: | Can I copy from the live system disk using
BACKUP/IMAGE? If not, I can boot off the
CD.
|
There are a bunch of things that can bite you when you try to back up a
running system disk. Booting from the CD is the best thing to do.
--Keith Lewis klewis {at} mitre.org
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hoff Hoffman
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 572
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:07 pm Post subject:
Re: BACKUP/IMAGE questions
|
|
|
In article <1107873997.074717.176430@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, tadamsmar@yahoo.com writes:
:I suspect that this is a hardware compatibility problem (I
:posted a separate message about this under a new topic).
The system involved is the DEC 2000 model 300 or model 500 series,
also known as the DECpc 150 AXP series when configured for the
Microsoft Windows NT Alpha software, and the thread is entitled:
AXP 150: trying to upgrade disk, need help
I've posted a response to that thread.
When posting, details on the configuration and the version can be
helpful -- there are aspects of the DEC 2000 model 300 series that
are entirely germaine here, and that largely trump the discussions
in this thread.
Do read my reply in the other thread, of course.
---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------
For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq
--------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------
Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman OpenVMS Engineering hoff[at]hp.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tadamsmar
*nix forums addict
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 69
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:46 pm Post subject:
Re: BACKUP/IMAGE questions
|
|
|
Dave Froble wrote:
| Quote: | tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:
I am replacing disks on a system with a broken
tape drive.
The new disk is twice the capacity of the old.
1 gig to 2 gig, I think.
These are rather small disks, today. No issues.
Is there any problem with using BACKUP/IMAGE
for a disk to disk copy in this situation?
You don't mention whether it's a system disk.
Assuming that you're copying a system disk, you can do it while the
system is running, or, if you have the drive and CD, running from the
distribution media.
If you do it while the system is running, be sure that no activity is
taking place on the system, no users, no batch jobs, etc, and even
shuting down the queue stuff won't hurt, but with no activity,
shouldn't
make a difference. Shutting down networking could also be done.
Should you wish different/better clustersize and file header
pre-allocation, you can first INITIALIZE the target disk:
INIT /SYSTEM /HEADER=?? /CLUSTERSIZE=?? .MAXIMUM_FILES=?? DISK2:
DISK2
Note, for a 2 GB disk, I'd just use a clustersize of 1. A bit more
overhead, but no wasted blocks. If you do this, and the source disk
has
a larger clustersize, the files will copy with the unused blocks. To
avoid this, use the /TRUNCATE switch on the target disk.
One thing to consider is whether you have any files marked NOBACKUP
on
the source disk. The page, swap, and dump files are normally setup
this
way, but they don't contain any relavent data. If you have other
files,
with relavent data, then to copy the data use /IGNORE=NOBACKUP. It's
been a while, but I think that this might cause a copy of the page,
swap, and dupm files, a useless exercise. An alternative would be to
find any other files marked NOBACKUP and remove that status before
copying the disk.
The following may wrap.
BACKUP /IMAGE /NOINIT /NOALIAS /IGNORE=(INTERLOCK,NOBACKUP,LABEL)
/VERIFY DISK1: DISK2: /TRUNCATE
Should I use /NOALIAS?
For a system disk, yes.
|
After I restore the disk with IMAGE/BACK, I cannot boot from it
or mount it non-foreign.
I did not use /NOALIAS or /NOINIT. I ended up using my standard
tape to disk restore procedure that I have used before. (We
added an external tape drive to work around the broken internal one.)
Also, I get a bug check during the verify step.
I suspect that this is a hardware compatibility problem (I
posted a separate message about this under a new topic). I
am trying figure out if I am at the current firmware rev. The
web site list version 2.2 as the firmware and the console reports
Version 370. In the web site release note for version 2.2 I get
the impression that it report version 370 after is it loaded.
I am not sure what to do now.
| Quote: |
There is something in HELP BACKUP/IMAGE about
preservation of the cluster factor. Is that
a problem in this situation, going to a
larger disk.
If you don't use the /NOINIT switch, the target disk will be
re-initialized to match the source disk. You may or may not desire
this.
Can I copy from the live system disk using
BACKUP/IMAGE? If not, I can boot off the
CD.
Either, as long as nothing is running on the system. If you can shut
it
down and boot from the CD, that is the approved method.
Dave |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hoff Hoffman
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 572
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:41 pm Post subject:
Re: BACKUP/IMAGE questions
|
|
|
In article <1107781228.898368.45180@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, tadamsmar@yahoo.com writes:
:Is there any problem with using BACKUP/IMAGE
:for a disk to disk copy in this situation?
From a running system, use the command:
INITIALIZE/HEADERS=x/MAXIMUM_FILES=y/SYSTEM/CLUSTER=n to: label
Then boot standalone BACKUP (VAX) or the distribution CD-ROM (recent
VAX, or Alpha V6.1 and later), or the distribution DVD-ROM (I64)
and use the command
BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY/NOINITIALIZE from: to:
You can use the INITIALIZE command from the bootable environment,
but not from standalone BACKUP.
:Should I use /NOALIAS?
/NOALIAS saves space in savesets, and should generally be used -- so
long as you understand you must request file-level restorations from
the primary entry. /IMAGE restorations will restore the correct file
structures regardless of the /[NO]ALIAS setting.
You will want to have the current ECOs here, of course, for whatever
OpenVMS version is involved.
:There is something in HELP BACKUP/IMAGE about
:preservation of the cluster factor. Is that
:a problem in this situation, going to a
:larger disk.
Could be. Bigger problem (no pun intended) is reserving enough
room on the bigger disk for files and headers.
:Can I copy from the live system disk using BACKUP/IMAGE?
If you are asking the question, I would tend to recommend against
it -- you may/will have to rebuild parts of files if you do use
this technique. See the /IGNORE=INTERLOCK discussion in the FAQ
for a discussion of the "fun".
If not, I can boot off the CD.
As you should. There is a description of the sequence used for
a full BACKUP/IMAGE available in the OpenVMS upgrade manual and/or
in the system manager's manual, and -- probably best -- there are
step-by-step sequences and command examples in the BACKUP manual.
If this is a VAXstation 3100 series or certain of the oldest members
of the MicroVAX 3100 series, please see the system disk limits that
are referenced in the OpenVMS FAQ.
---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------
For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq
--------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------
Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman OpenVMS Engineering hoff[at]hp.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dave Froble
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 1172
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:56 pm Post subject:
Re: BACKUP/IMAGE questions
|
|
|
tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | I am replacing disks on a system with a broken
tape drive.
The new disk is twice the capacity of the old.
1 gig to 2 gig, I think.
|
These are rather small disks, today. No issues.
| Quote: | Is there any problem with using BACKUP/IMAGE
for a disk to disk copy in this situation?
|
You don't mention whether it's a system disk.
Assuming that you're copying a system disk, you can do it while the
system is running, or, if you have the drive and CD, running from the
distribution media.
If you do it while the system is running, be sure that no activity is
taking place on the system, no users, no batch jobs, etc, and even
shuting down the queue stuff won't hurt, but with no activity, shouldn't
make a difference. Shutting down networking could also be done.
Should you wish different/better clustersize and file header
pre-allocation, you can first INITIALIZE the target disk:
INIT /SYSTEM /HEADER=?? /CLUSTERSIZE=?? .MAXIMUM_FILES=?? DISK2: DISK2
Note, for a 2 GB disk, I'd just use a clustersize of 1. A bit more
overhead, but no wasted blocks. If you do this, and the source disk has
a larger clustersize, the files will copy with the unused blocks. To
avoid this, use the /TRUNCATE switch on the target disk.
One thing to consider is whether you have any files marked NOBACKUP on
the source disk. The page, swap, and dump files are normally setup this
way, but they don't contain any relavent data. If you have other files,
with relavent data, then to copy the data use /IGNORE=NOBACKUP. It's
been a while, but I think that this might cause a copy of the page,
swap, and dupm files, a useless exercise. An alternative would be to
find any other files marked NOBACKUP and remove that status before
copying the disk.
The following may wrap.
BACKUP /IMAGE /NOINIT /NOALIAS /IGNORE=(INTERLOCK,NOBACKUP,LABEL)
/VERIFY DISK1: DISK2: /TRUNCATE
| Quote: | Should I use /NOALIAS?
|
For a system disk, yes.
| Quote: | There is something in HELP BACKUP/IMAGE about
preservation of the cluster factor. Is that
a problem in this situation, going to a
larger disk.
|
If you don't use the /NOINIT switch, the target disk will be
re-initialized to match the source disk. You may or may not desire this.
| Quote: | Can I copy from the live system disk using
BACKUP/IMAGE? If not, I can boot off the
CD.
|
Either, as long as nothing is running on the system. If you can shut it
down and boot from the CD, that is the approved method.
Dave |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AEF
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 516
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:46 pm Post subject:
Re: BACKUP/IMAGE questions
|
|
|
Beach Runner wrote:
| Quote: | You might want to pre-init the drive with a larger indexf.sys
and then do an image restore/noinit. It's a good idea to
pre-allocate
additional size for indexf.sys, especially if you're going to a
bigger
drive.
Call Colorado for details.
|
Good point! You may want to consider giving values for some or all of
the following INITIALIZE qualifiers: /HEADERS /MAXIMUM_FILES
/CLUSTER_SIZE.
/HEADERS=n makes INDEXF.SYS large enough for n file headers initially.
No expansion of INDEXF.SYS will be needed until you exceed n file
headers.
/MAXIMUM_FILES=m determines the size of the header bitmap in INDEXF.SYS
and m becomes the largest number of file headers you can ever have on
the disk without reinitializing. Be sure not to make this too small!!!
/CLUSTER_SIZE determines the cluster size. Cluster size and
maximum_files are related. See HELP INIT for more info on that.
[...] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AEF
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 516
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: BACKUP/IMAGE questions
|
|
|
AEF wrote:
| Quote: | tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:
[...]
Can I copy from the live system disk using
BACKUP/IMAGE? If not, I can boot off the
CD.
Yes, but you might get inconsistenties. It's better to do standalone
backup if you can. I'm not sure of the requirements for booting from
CD. |
Oops! If you back up a live system disk, be sure to include
/IGNORE=INTERLOCK so that any files that are open for write are copied.
(If you don't include this qualifier, BACKUP will not save these
files.) You will get warnings about these files that look like
%BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSMGR]OPERATOR.LOG;1011 is
open for write by another user
Such files may not be copied correctly, but it is unlikely that your
backup will not be bootable. The best, of course, is to do a standalone
backup or to back up while running from the CD.
You will also get messages about data not being copied from
PAGEFILE.SYS, SWAPFILE.SYS, and SYSDUMP.DMP. That is okay. Their file
headers are copied and they will be re-created during the restore. And
if you had a system crash and you did not already extract crash info
from SYSDUMP.DMP, you will, of course, lose that info. But your system
will still work fine. No data in the other two files needs to be saved
across boots. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Beach Runner
*nix forums addict
Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 80
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:04 pm Post subject:
Re: BACKUP/IMAGE questions
|
|
|
You might want to pre-init the drive with a larger indexf.sys
and then do an image restore/noinit. It's a good idea to pre-allocate
additional size for indexf.sys, especially if you're going to a bigger
drive.
Call Colorado for details.
AEF wrote:
| Quote: | tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:
I am replacing disks on a system with a broken
tape drive.
The new disk is twice the capacity of the old.
1 gig to 2 gig, I think.
Is there any problem with using BACKUP/IMAGE
for a disk to disk copy in this situation?
I can't think of any.
Should I use /NOALIAS?
Yes (during the save operation).
There is something in HELP BACKUP/IMAGE about
preservation of the cluster factor. Is that
a problem in this situation, going to a
larger disk.
I don't know. What does it say? (My HELP has no such "something".) What
version of VMS are you running? If you desire a particular cluster
factor, initialize the target disk accordingly and add /NOINIT to the
BACKUP restore command. You may also want to add /TRUNCATE if the new
cluster factor is not an integral multiple of the old.
Can I copy from the live system disk using
BACKUP/IMAGE? If not, I can boot off the
CD.
Yes, but you might get inconsistenties. It's better to do standalone
backup if you can. I'm not sure of the requirements for booting from CD.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AEF
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 516
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:31 pm Post subject:
Re: BACKUP/IMAGE questions
|
|
|
tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | I am replacing disks on a system with a broken
tape drive.
The new disk is twice the capacity of the old.
1 gig to 2 gig, I think.
Is there any problem with using BACKUP/IMAGE
for a disk to disk copy in this situation?
|
I can't think of any.
| Quote: | Should I use /NOALIAS?
|
Yes (during the save operation).
| Quote: | There is something in HELP BACKUP/IMAGE about
preservation of the cluster factor. Is that
a problem in this situation, going to a
larger disk.
|
I don't know. What does it say? (My HELP has no such "something".) What
version of VMS are you running? If you desire a particular cluster
factor, initialize the target disk accordingly and add /NOINIT to the
BACKUP restore command. You may also want to add /TRUNCATE if the new
cluster factor is not an integral multiple of the old.
| Quote: | Can I copy from the live system disk using
BACKUP/IMAGE? If not, I can boot off the
CD.
|
Yes, but you might get inconsistenties. It's better to do standalone
backup if you can. I'm not sure of the requirements for booting from CD. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tadamsmar
*nix forums addict
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 69
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:00 pm Post subject:
BACKUP/IMAGE questions
|
|
|
I am replacing disks on a system with a broken
tape drive.
The new disk is twice the capacity of the old.
1 gig to 2 gig, I think.
Is there any problem with using BACKUP/IMAGE
for a disk to disk copy in this situation?
Should I use /NOALIAS?
There is something in HELP BACKUP/IMAGE about
preservation of the cluster factor. Is that
a problem in this situation, going to a
larger disk.
Can I copy from the live system disk using
BACKUP/IMAGE? If not, I can boot off the
CD. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Google
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
The time now is Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:09 am | All times are GMT
|
|
Recreation websites directory | Unblock Myspace | Problem Mortgage | Credit Cards | Loans
|
|
Copyright © 2004-2005 DeniX Solutions SRL
|
|
|
|
Other DeniX Solutions sites:
Unix/Linux blog |
electronics forum |
medicine forum |
science forum |
|
|
Privacy Policy
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Forum index
»
Not Unix
»
VMS
