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Harold Stevens
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 384
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 Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:14 am Post subject:
Re: This has happended too many times before...
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In <cue801$k0n$3$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk> Brian:
[Snip...]
| Quote: | Careful, now - your latency is showing...
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So "Mitch" is a wintroll in gender denial. OK, that explains a lot...
--
Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
Kids jumping ship? Looking to hire an old-school type? Email me. |
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Brian
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 314
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:56 pm Post subject:
Re: This has happended too many times before...
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On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 04:26:15 +0000, Mitch_A wrote:
| Quote: | Im flattered but seeing how Im heterosexual his homosexual advances are
meaningless...
Careful, now - your latency is showing... |
B.
--
"Between two evils, I always pick the one I haven't tried."
-Mae West |
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Mark Kent
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:52 pm Post subject:
Re: This has happended too many times before...
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Linønut <linønut@bone.com> espoused:
| Quote: | Greg Finnigan poked his little head through the XP firewall and said:
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 17:10:48 -0600, Liam Slider wrote:
Mandrake's updating and installing is *awesome* I can tell you that.
Over the years I have learned to take anything a Linux advocate says
with a very small grain of salt.
You still need to learn to take anything anyone says with a grain of salt.
IOW if Linux was good everyone would be using it and they are not.
Considering Linux is free, that is a pretty powerful statement.
It sure is. It states powerfully just how fully Microsoft was able to
decimate (i.e. destroy 9/10 of) its competition through dirty tricks and
outright criminal methods, so that practically its only competition in the
OS department is free software.
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I rather thought that they'd centimated the competition... :-)
Btw, I suspect that virtually every computer user does use linux at
some point, be it for web server or mail server, news host, router
or firewall. Or perhaps, is a customer of a weather forecast from a
linux super-computer, or uses a telephone network whose applications
are hosted on a linux blade server.
<snip>
--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
An engineer is someone who does list processing in FORTRAN. |
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James Knott
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 1233
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:15 pm Post subject:
Re: This has happended too many times before...
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Liam Slider wrote:
| Quote: | Yes, I never claimed that MS piracy wasn't rampant.
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Are you referring to people copying software, or MS business practices?  |
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The Ghost In The Machine
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:00 pm Post subject:
Re: This has happended too many times before...
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In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Liam Slider
<liam@NOSPAM.liamslider.com>
wrote
on Mon, 07 Feb 2005 19:39:36 -0600
<pan.2005.02.08.01.39.31.818235@NOSPAM.liamslider.com>:
Not bad; 25 vendors (6 global, 19 regional) --
unfortunately, one of them is Dell, which might at best
give only partial support through their alternative
workstation program AFAICT -- for desktops, and 8 laptop
vendors. I'm not counting the side ads, which mention
BladeRunner.
(An interesting little beast, visually vaguely reminiscent
of certain Convergent offerings, only far more capable
from a software standpoint, and more powerful from the
hardware standpoint. A bit pricey per Blade, as 6
blades cost $23.4K ($3,900 per blade) and 12 blades cost
either $37,200 or $39,800 -- I'm not sure what the diff
between a Master Node Blade and a regular Blade is,
but $37.2K = $3,100/Blade and $39,800 = $3,316.67 per
Blade, or perhaps $5.7K for the Master and $3,100 per compute
engine. Of course I'm not entirely certain as to
how to compute the cost of the rackmount chassis, switch,
and such -- and the master has a 60GB disk drive, whereas
the slaves do not.)
Still no Walmart -- and maybe that's a good thing. 
(Not that Walmart's bad, but there is a minor image
problem.) HP is also absent; perhaps they should be added,
if only because they do have at least one offering (dx2000;
I've not looked in detail at others).
--
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
It's still legal to go .sigless. |
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Liam Slider
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:19 pm Post subject:
Re: This has happended too many times before...
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On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 09:50:47 -0800, Lenny Bruce wrote:
| Quote: | Talking about "what little if any there is" of "supposed" MS software
piracy, shows a strong bias against the facts. Using illegal copies of
MS software is piracy, plain and simple.
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Yes, I never claimed that MS piracy wasn't rampant. *However* there is the
claim that MS Piracy is rampant *on Linux pre-installed systems* which is
what I am disputing. What little if any there is of this supposed pirated
MS software *being installed over Linux on Linux pre-installed computers*
is definately more than made up for by the Linux that's replacing the
pre-loaded Windows in droves. |
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Lenny Bruce
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:50 pm Post subject:
Re: This has happended too many times before...
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Tukla Ratte wrote:
| Quote: | James Knott wrote:
Liam Slider wrote:
Heh. Another point I'd like to make is. How many brand new pre-installed
Windows machines have Windows wiped off and Linux installed on them
instead? Probably enough in actual numbers to make up for the
supposed piracy...and definately more than enough to make up the real
Windows piracy, what little if any there is.
I've got two computers, that originally came with Windows. One's running
SuSE 9.1 and the other OS/2 Warp 4..
Similarly, I've replaced bundled Windows with Linux on four computers
(two desktops, two laptops) over the years -- three with SuSE and one
with Mepis.
I'm not a fan of MS monopolistic practices but: on a world wide basis, |
I'd estimate that the ratio of pirated copies of Windows and MS Office
to "paid for and deleted" of current versions of that software is > 1000
to 1.
Talking about "what little if any there is" of "supposed" MS software
piracy, shows a strong bias against the facts. Using illegal copies of
MS software is piracy, plain and simple. You can buy or assemble from
parts, a computer without MS software. If you buy a computer with an MS
license its yours to use or not according to its terms.
On the positive side, the more that MS copy protects its software, the
stronger will be the incentive to use open source substitutes. |
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Tukla Ratte
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:26 pm Post subject:
Re: This has happended too many times before...
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James Knott wrote:
| Quote: | Liam Slider wrote:
Heh. Another point I'd like to make is. How many brand new pre-installed
Windows machines have Windows wiped off and Linux installed on them
instead? Probably enough in actual numbers to make up for the
supposed piracy...and definately more than enough to make up the real
Windows piracy, what little if any there is.
I've got two computers, that originally came with Windows. One's running
SuSE 9.1 and the other OS/2 Warp 4..
|
Similarly, I've replaced bundled Windows with Linux on four computers
(two desktops, two laptops) over the years -- three with SuSE and one
with Mepis.
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347 |
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Sunny
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:33 am Post subject:
Re: This has happended too many times before...
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Greg Finnigan wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 21:37:44 +0000, Alan wrote:
I'm running Suse 9.1 Pro and did an online update of packages through
Yast. Shutdown the computer and upon booting later, the system does all
it usual stuff and appears to book fine. However when at the point when
it should startX and show the Login and password boxes, the screen just
goes blank.
Has anyone experienced this problem and if so willing to share their
pearls of wisdom?
Oh please don't tell me another re-install!
Updating ANYTHING with Suse is a crap shoot, with the emphasis on C_R_A_P.
Try Mandrake.
If that doesn't work, try Slackware.
If that doesn't work, try Debian.
If that doesn't work, try Gentoo.
If that doesn't work, try Ubuntu.
If that doesn't work, try Fedora.
If that doesn't work, try Lycoris.
If that doesn't work, try knoppix.
And when all of those don't work, and they won't, buy yourself a Mac and
have a truly stable, easy to use, Unix system without all the bug riddled,
unstable software that Linux has to offer.
|
Really? I have minimal Linux experience, but that experience says it
just works.
About 18 months ago, I got a great deal on a bunch of used SCSI drives I
was planning to use to expand storage in the household PCs. The seller
threw in a nice 4-channel Adaptec SCSI RAID controller because it was dead.
Turned out the RAID controller was dead because somebody dropped or
otherwise abused it, and managed to knock off several surface-mount
components. I made educated guesses as to the missing parts and replaced
them - bingo, free RAID controller :-)
I decided to build a file server around it instead of installing the
drives in the PCs, since I had enough older spare parts around.
I wanted the server to run headless in the basement. I suppose I could
have used Windows and PCanywhere, but I had a feeling I'd be dragging a
monitor and keyboard down to the basement regularly if I did that...
I was going to run Solaris x86, since I'm familiar with Solaris Sparc
from work, but it didn't support the RAID controller. Someone at work
suggested SuSE because it could be installed via FTP and sets up Samba
by default - so I downloaded the boot iso and gave it a shot.
It took me most of a day to install SuSE and configure Samba, mostly
because I'd never done either before, but it was all fairly straightforward.
I X into the file server about once a month and tell Yast to fetch any
updates, then reboot if it says I should, but apart from that the box
just hums quietly in the basement and serves files with no muss or fuss
- it might as well be an appliance for all the attention it needs.
Sunny |
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Mitch_A
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:26 am Post subject:
Re: This has happended too many times before...
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Harold Stevens wrote:
| Quote: | In <gmgravesnos-66550D.12503707022005@newssvr23-ext.news.prodigy.com
George:
[Snip...]
the latest distributions which are easier than MacOSX and have more and
better software than Windows.
IMO you're wasting your time with "Mitch" but hey, it's your time.
"Mitch" appears to be a wintroll. I respectfully suggest "Mitch" FOAD, and
you killfile the 'tard (as I did days ago). YMMV, HTH...
|
For having me killfiled me Harry sure seems quite smitten as he finds it
neccesary to mention me by name almost daily. Im flattered but seeing how
Im heterosexual his homosexual advances are meaningless...
Mitch
--
Remove "nospam." to reply.
SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a |
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Walter Bushell
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:06 am Post subject:
Re: This has happended too many times before...
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In article <_lHNd.2245$UX3.1121@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Tim Smith <reply_in_group@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <sJxNd.3385$dc.2126@fe11.lga>, Greg Finnigan wrote:
Over the years I have learned to take anything a Linux advocate says with
a very small grain of salt. IOW if Linux was good everyone would be using
it and they are not. Considering Linux is free, that is a pretty powerful
statement.
Here's a more powerful statement: virtually every PC comes with Windows, so
virtually everyone has paid $50 to $100 bucks for a copy of Windows. Yet,
many *are* switching to Linux--they are giving up something they *already*
*paid* *for*. That says a lot about how crappy Windows is.
Even worse, many are switching to OS X, which requires buying a whole new
computer to run. They find Windows so bad they'll not only give up the $50
they spent on Windows, but also the several hundred they spent on their PC,
and spend at least $500 more on a Mac. That is an even more powerful
statement about Windows.
|
A lot of those are ready to toss their windows machines anyway. They may
be running '98 or '95 and a few 3.11 for all I know.
--
Guns don't kill people; automobiles kill people. |
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Liam Slider
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:39 am Post subject:
Re: This has happended too many times before...
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On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 01:00:04 +0000, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
| Quote: | But OK, perhaps I should ask Liam -- who's selling these PCs? Just
out of curiosity? I'd like to take a look at 'em -- and the
only ones I've seen are Walmart.
|
http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/desktop.html
http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/laptop.html
These are, of course, not *complete* lists... |
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Harold Stevens
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 384
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:11 am Post subject:
Re: This has happended too many times before...
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In <gmgravesnos-66550D.12503707022005@newssvr23-ext.news.prodigy.com> George:
[Snip...]
| Quote: | the latest distributions which are easier than MacOSX and have more and
better software than Windows.
|
IMO you're wasting your time with "Mitch" but hey, it's your time.
"Mitch" appears to be a wintroll. I respectfully suggest "Mitch" FOAD, and
you killfile the 'tard (as I did days ago). YMMV, HTH...
--
Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
Kids jumping ship? Looking to hire an old-school type? Email me. |
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The Ghost In The Machine
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:00 am Post subject:
Re: This has happended too many times before...
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In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Robert G. Cook
<heyrgc@hotmail.com>
wrote
on Mon, 07 Feb 2005 16:35:13 -0600
<4207edc2$1_2@127.0.0.1>:
| Quote: | hoo wrote:
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Roy Coorne <roy.spam.coorne@gmx.net> wrote:
Liam Slider wrote:
...
What do you mean, 10% of all new desktop PCs being sold right now are
being sold with Linux pre-installed. That sounds like people are spending
money on Linux to me.
...
It sounds like... but in many cases it turns out that people install
stolen MS Windows XP copies on those 'Linux machines' later...
Yeah, like I paid $349 to have Red Hat ES3 preinstalled on my new Dell
just so I could swap it out for Wintendo.
Wintendo?!?!
Freaking beautiful...ROTFLMAO!!!!
|
It's a term occasionally used by Linuxophiles to describe a certain
other OS -- and is probably annoying to those OS users, not to
mention a certain gaming company who specializes in plumbers, Cubes,
and some handhelds.
I'm mildly surprised you haven't heard it before. Then again,
maybe you're new here; welcome to the daily fracas that is COLA.
Be careful we don't get up your nose. [*] :-)
But OK, perhaps I should ask Liam -- who's selling these PCs? Just
out of curiosity? I'd like to take a look at 'em -- and the
only ones I've seen are Walmart. However, a quick Google coughed
up
http://www.desktoplinux.com
which appears to be primarily a forum-based website but does have
links to Linux PDAs, smartphones, and "other cool stuff". Among
the offerings is an IBM e-LAP "reference design" (huh?) and
a bunch of Zauruses.
Also,
http://www.linuxdevices.com
has a number of interesting gadgets.
Interestingly, there are hints that HP is selling PC
Linux desktops in Asia, according to a Google search.
A walk through HP's "small business" section coughed up
a rather cheap but capable desktop, the dx2000 series.
The odd thing is that the Linux version costs $23 more,
though part of that might be that the Linux variant has
256 MB DDR 333 and a floppy, whereas the Windows variant
only has 128 MB and no floppy. An additional 128 MB costs
+$60; the floppy costs +$19. The Linux variant uses 865G;
the Windows uses 865GV. I have no idea what the difference
is in these two chipsets. Everything else, by default,
is identical. Weird, but heartening -- though I don't
know how much Mandrake 9.2 costs to license (probably not
all that much), and am wondering why the default configs
are so different, masking the savings one gets from Linux
(which looks to be roughly $64 if 865GV == 865G).
At that, it's an improvement over Dell's or IBM's offerings,
at least last time I looked, some time back. I'm tempted,
but don't know if the graphics are beefy enough for me.
| Quote: |
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure
Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
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[*] the double meaning is of course intentional. :-)
--
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
It's still legal to go .sigless. |
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Robert G. Cook
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:35 pm Post subject:
Re: This has happended too many times before...
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hoo wrote:
| Quote: | In comp.os.linux.advocacy Roy Coorne <roy.spam.coorne@gmx.net> wrote:
Liam Slider wrote:
...
What do you mean, 10% of all new desktop PCs being sold right now are
being sold with Linux pre-installed. That sounds like people are spending
money on Linux to me.
...
It sounds like... but in many cases it turns out that people install
stolen MS Windows XP copies on those 'Linux machines' later...
Yeah, like I paid $349 to have Red Hat ES3 preinstalled on my new Dell
just so I could swap it out for Wintendo.
Wintendo?!?! |
Freaking beautiful...ROTFLMAO!!!!
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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