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dphill46@netscape.net
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 100
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 Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:34 pm Post subject:
Re: New itaniums out at 2.5x perform gain
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bob@instantwhip.com wrote:
| Quote: | http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=190500823
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##
Itanium was supposed to be a "panacea" for high-end computing, says
Cox. Then "reality set in" that customers were unwilling to reprogram
much or their x86 software to take advantage of Itanium, he says.
##
Now we know; it's reality's fault! Darned reality, setting in like
that, screwing everything up. |
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Neil Rieck
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:30 pm Post subject:
Re: New itaniums out at 2.5x perform gain
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<bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message
news:1153338631.693974.80440@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=190500823
quote-on |
"We're working pretty hard to get it to a profitable product," said Pat
Gelsinger, senior VP of Intel's digital enterprise group, in an interview
following a press conference in San Francisco Tuesday. "If we could unwind
the clock, I would have just built a RAS version of Xeon to attack the
market," he said, using an industry term for "reliable, highly available,
and scalable" chips, and referring to Intel's Xeon server chips, which
employ the widely used x86 instruction set. Itanium uses a less popular
design called EPIC.
<quote-off>
When a company makes this kind of statement in public, they are testing the
waters. Now let's see what the investment community says about this.
Neil Rieck
Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,
Ontario, Canada.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html |
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Bill Todd
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 408
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:16 am Post subject:
Re: New itaniums out at 2.5x perform gain
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Neil Rieck wrote:
| Quote: | bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message
news:1153338631.693974.80440@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=190500823
quote-on
"We're working pretty hard to get it to a profitable product," said Pat
Gelsinger, senior VP of Intel's digital enterprise group, in an interview
following a press conference in San Francisco Tuesday. "If we could unwind
the clock, I would have just built a RAS version of Xeon to attack the
market," he said, using an industry term for "reliable, highly available,
and scalable" chips, and referring to Intel's Xeon server chips, which
employ the widely used x86 instruction set. Itanium uses a less popular
design called EPIC.
quote-off
When a company makes this kind of statement in public, they are testing the
waters.
|
Interesting thought. My own reaction was merely that this blunt
admission by Gelsinger should finally put paid to the Itanic apologists
who keep bleating that it at least has a safe high-end RAS refuge that
x86 can never assail.
- bill |
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Bill Todd
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 408
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:33 am Post subject:
Re: New itaniums out at 2.5x perform gain
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bob@instantwhip.com wrote:
| Quote: | http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=190500823
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Ah, me - even an article that starts by bending over backward to try to
make Itanic look good has a lot of difficulty doing so these days - at
least if it doesn't play somewhat fast and loose with its wording.
Examples:
"Say this for Intel—after five years of [initially negligible and later
only] modest sales and [dramatically] scaled-down ambitions, it's not
[at least not yet] giving up on Itanium [at least not publicly]."
(bracketed clarifications added)
"The chips deliver more than twice the database performance of
previous-generation Itaniums [at the *chip* level, though only slightly
more *per-core* performance despite years of new development, 5x as much
L2 cache and 1.33x as much L3 cache, and significant core enhancements
like multi-threading: the rest comes from having two cores on the
chip], and draw 2.5 times less electric power [if you nimbly and
ever-so-tacitly switch the subject from the *chip* to *per-core* power:
the per-chip power is only moderately reduced]"
"But..." it then continues, and actually isn't all that biased thereafter.
- bill |
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Neil Rieck
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:57 am Post subject:
Re: New itaniums out at 2.5x perform gain
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"Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44beb1c0$0$989$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com...
| Quote: |
bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message
news:1153338631.693974.80440@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=190500823
quote-on
"We're working pretty hard to get it to a profitable product," said Pat
Gelsinger, senior VP of Intel's digital enterprise group, in an interview
following a press conference in San Francisco Tuesday. "If we could unwind
the clock, I would have just built a RAS version of Xeon to attack the
market," he said, using an industry term for "reliable, highly available,
and scalable" chips, and referring to Intel's Xeon server chips, which
employ the widely used x86 instruction set. Itanium uses a less popular
design called EPIC.
quote-off
When a company makes this kind of statement in public, they are testing
the
waters. Now let's see what the investment community says about this.
Yikes! |
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-6096207.html?tag=nl.e589
Intel has just announced a 57 percent drop in income.
I wonder what those suits will chop first?
Neil Rieck
Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,
Ontario, Canada.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html |
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Bill Gunshannon
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 1019
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:02 am Post subject:
Re: New itaniums out at 2.5x perform gain
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In article <koGdncJoyNPrViPZnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>,
Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:
| Quote: | Neil Rieck wrote:
bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message
news:1153338631.693974.80440@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=190500823
quote-on
"We're working pretty hard to get it to a profitable product," said Pat
Gelsinger, senior VP of Intel's digital enterprise group, in an interview
following a press conference in San Francisco Tuesday. "If we could unwind
the clock, I would have just built a RAS version of Xeon to attack the
market," he said, using an industry term for "reliable, highly available,
and scalable" chips, and referring to Intel's Xeon server chips, which
employ the widely used x86 instruction set. Itanium uses a less popular
design called EPIC.
quote-off
When a company makes this kind of statement in public, they are testing the
waters.
Interesting thought. My own reaction was merely that this blunt
admission by Gelsinger should finally put paid to the Itanic apologists
who keep bleating that it at least has a safe high-end RAS refuge that
x86 can never assail.
|
In the corporate world isn't swallowing your ego and admitting that you
made a mistake the first and in most cases the hardest step to correcting
that mistake?
bill
--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> |
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JF Mezei
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 2556
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:11 am Post subject:
Re: New itaniums out at 2.5x perform gain
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Doug Phillips wrote:
What I found more telling is the admission that that IA64 thing is not
profitable for Intel.
Me thinks that the second the contract runs out with HP, Intel will be
more than happy to put that IA64 thing out of its misery.
So far, I have seen nothing to indicate that such an announcement won't
come in 2007. The path was set in February 2004. |
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JF Mezei
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 2556
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:22 am Post subject:
Re: New itaniums out at 2.5x perform gain
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Neil Rieck wrote:
| Quote: | http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-6096207.html?tag=nl.e589
Intel has just announced a 57 percent drop in income.
I wonder what those suits will chop first?
|
IA64 is safe. It is a fair bet that HP is subsidizing IA64 to keep it
alive for now. And if an exit strategy has already been decided and
slowly being implemented, by next year, the 8086 will probably be much
faster than that IA64 contraption and it will be much easier for HP to
announce it is moving to simplify its platforms and standardizing on
industry standard 8086s.
Right now, the cost of prematurely cancelling IA64 would be probably
higher for Intel than the costs of continuing it. But it is a fair bet
that Intel will not be hiring extra engineers to speed up development
work of IA64 and the opposite may happen which will make each remaining
iteration of IA64 even later and thus less relevant to the industry.
The big question is at what level within HP are they aware of the true
strategy and working to plan on the transition to 8086. |
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JF Mezei
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 2556
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:25 am Post subject:
Re: New itaniums out at 2.5x perform gain
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In the news today as well: Intel will deliver quadcore 8086s early (end
of 2006 instead of mid 2007). Why ? because they MUST compete against
AMD and regain marklet share against AMD. That is where the resources
are being put. |
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JF Mezei
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 2556
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:36 am Post subject:
Re: New itaniums out at 2.5x perform gain
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BBC's World Business Report had an interview with Intel's CFO. He said
that within the next 3 to 6 months, there will be many small changes to
reduce costs, but no single large event that analysts will be able to
point to, however, he said that 6 months from now, peopple who look back
will see that significant changes will have been made.
In other words, they may downsize the IA64 teams, but they won't
announce its death yet. |
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Neil Rieck
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:28 am Post subject:
Re: New itaniums out at 2.5x perform gain
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"Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message
news:4i830qF2k5j6U1@individual.net...
| Quote: | In article <koGdncJoyNPrViPZnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com
[...snip...]
In the corporate world isn't swallowing your ego and admitting that you
made a mistake the first and in most cases the hardest step to correcting
that mistake?
|
Yes but on this side of Y2K, corporate execs have "rock star" egos. They
almost never admit they make mistakes (even when in court).
Neil Rieck
Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,
Ontario, Canada.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ |
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Neil Rieck
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:56 am Post subject:
Re: New itaniums out at 2.5x perform gain
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"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message
news:44BEE63D.311660E0@teksavvy.com...
| Quote: | Doug Phillips wrote:
[...snip...]
What I found more telling is the admission that that IA64 thing is not
profitable for Intel.
Me thinks that the second the contract runs out with HP, Intel will be
more than happy to put that IA64 thing out of its misery.
So far, I have seen nothing to indicate that such an announcement won't
come in 2007. The path was set in February 2004.
|
Sometimes investors and upper management have different agendas than the
rest of a company (or deals they've made with other companies). Look at what
is happening with General Motors:
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/financial_markets/15066113.htm
Billionaire investor Kirk Kerkorian buys more than 10% of the shares then
"suggests" that GM do a deal with Nissan and Renault. In this context the
billionaire investor doesn't care about jobs, corporate prestige, GM
engineering, etc. He just wants to increase his wealth.
Although no big investor has raided Intel, upper management is already
making noise about AMD's market share doubling from 10% to 20% (although
Intel's market share has only dropped from 90% to 80%). Intel has just cut
1000 jobs and is considering cutting another 5000. They've sold off their
communications business and I keep wondering what else will end up on the
chopping block.
Neil Rieck
Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,
Ontario, Canada.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html |
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etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk
*nix forums addict
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 95
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:26 am Post subject:
Re: New itaniums out at 2.5x perform gain
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I like the quote:
'For that reason, Itanium is more strategic to HP than Intel today,
says Gordon Haff, an analyst at research firm Illuminata. "Their Unix,
OpenVMS, and NonStop business goes 'poof' if Itanium goes 'poof'," says
Haff. "HP can not afford to put its customers through another
instruction-set transition." '
That makes the most sense of any of this discussion. Everything within
HP's high end relies on Itanium. HP can't let that happen, whether it
means signing blank cheques to Intel or buying them and dropping them
in the bottom of the bay to increase volumes.
Porting the enterprise operating environments to a 32-bit chip with
64-bit extensions ain't gonna happen any time soon in my view. That
would spell the end of HP as anything but a PC and printer maker.
Steve
Neil Rieck wrote:
| Quote: | "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message
news:44BEE63D.311660E0@teksavvy.com...
Doug Phillips wrote:
[...snip...]
What I found more telling is the admission that that IA64 thing is not
profitable for Intel.
Me thinks that the second the contract runs out with HP, Intel will be
more than happy to put that IA64 thing out of its misery.
So far, I have seen nothing to indicate that such an announcement won't
come in 2007. The path was set in February 2004.
Sometimes investors and upper management have different agendas than the
rest of a company (or deals they've made with other companies). Look at what
is happening with General Motors:
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/financial_markets/15066113.htm
Billionaire investor Kirk Kerkorian buys more than 10% of the shares then
"suggests" that GM do a deal with Nissan and Renault. In this context the
billionaire investor doesn't care about jobs, corporate prestige, GM
engineering, etc. He just wants to increase his wealth.
Although no big investor has raided Intel, upper management is already
making noise about AMD's market share doubling from 10% to 20% (although
Intel's market share has only dropped from 90% to 80%). Intel has just cut
1000 jobs and is considering cutting another 5000. They've sold off their
communications business and I keep wondering what else will end up on the
chopping block.
Neil Rieck
Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,
Ontario, Canada.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html |
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Bill Gunshannon
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 1019
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:31 am Post subject:
Re: New itaniums out at 2.5x perform gain
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In article <44bf5a0e$0$18489$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>,
"Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:
| Quote: |
"Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message
news:4i830qF2k5j6U1@individual.net...
In article <koGdncJoyNPrViPZnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com
[...snip...]
In the corporate world isn't swallowing your ego and admitting that you
made a mistake the first and in most cases the hardest step to correcting
that mistake?
Yes but on this side of Y2K, corporate execs have "rock star" egos. They
almost never admit they make mistakes (even when in court).
|
But that was my point.
"If we could unwind the clock, I would have just built a RAS version
of Xeon to attack the market,"
The above certainly looks like he is admiting they made a mistake to me.
The next step is correcting that mistake!!
bill
--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> |
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Bill Gunshannon
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 1019
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:38 am Post subject:
Re: New itaniums out at 2.5x perform gain
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In article <44BEE900.A45B5062@teksavvy.com>,
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:
| Quote: | Neil Rieck wrote:
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-6096207.html?tag=nl.e589
Intel has just announced a 57 percent drop in income.
I wonder what those suits will chop first?
IA64 is safe. It is a fair bet that HP is subsidizing IA64 to keep it
alive for now. And if an exit strategy has already been decided and
slowly being implemented, by next year, the 8086 will probably be much
faster than that IA64 contraption and it will be much easier for HP to
announce it is moving to simplify its platforms and standardizing on
industry standard 8086s.
|
And exactly why wold they announce that they were moving VMS to x86-64
rather than just announcing that they are concentrating on their real
business, Windows boxes, and pulling the plug on VMS?
| Quote: |
Right now, the cost of prematurely cancelling IA64 would be probably
higher for Intel than the costs of continuing it.
|
I fail to see the logic int his. IA64 is costing them buckets of
money. Cance3ling it would end stop the bleeding and let them cut
even more jobs making them look even better to the Casino Analysts.
| Quote: | But it is a fair bet
that Intel will not be hiring extra engineers to speed up development
work of IA64 and the opposite may happen which will make each remaining
iteration of IA64 even later and thus less relevant to the industry.
The big question is at what level within HP are they aware of the true
strategy and working to plan on the transition to 8086.
|
You keep assuming that they have any plan or even desire to migrate VMS
any further. If that were likely, considering how long it can take to
go from desire to a viable commercial product, the work would have already
begun. There is no sign that it has, regardless of what you see on your
vision quest when your smoking whatever it is the shaman gives you in the
lodge.
bill
--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> |
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