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Mathieu JANIN
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:10 am Post subject:
RE: Package Selection for Debian Live
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Thx,
I know how to build a live CD or a pendrive with what I want on it (almost),
and I know some tweaks to squash down all things (I comme from embedded
developpment and even if it's far away now, this is always a concern for
me).
I was just thinking about your discussion on what kind of LiveCD debian Live
shoud be, and as Debian is some sort of "Mother" for a lot of distrib, I
just suggested that "Debian LIVE" could be the same for debian based
"LiveCD" (a work on genericization of liveCD building under debian).
But it is just a philosophical suggestion, I don't even know how far is
"Debian Live" devel.
(excuse me for my poor english if I didn't make it clear)
Matt.
| Quote: | -----Message d'origine-----
De : John Goerzen [mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org]
Envoyé : jeudi 20 juillet 2006 15:38
À : Mathieu JANIN
Cc : Debian Development
Objet : Re: Package Selection for Debian Live
On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 12:01:30PM +0200, Mathieu JANIN wrote:
Hi folks,
i could seem idiot, but wouldn't it be nice to have a
minimalistic bootstrap
CD with everything that is needed to compose your own
liveCD (perharps an
enhanced version of DFSbuild, with "cleaning/compressing"
feature like
localepurge and so ), and only a minimalistic set of what
is needed for
basic forensic.
You could probably do that with dfsbuild and a little bit of
scrubbing.
You probably just would want to do things like rm -r /usr/share/doc
/usr/share/man on the generated image.
-- John
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John Goerzen
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:40 pm Post subject:
Re: Package Selection for Debian Live
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On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 12:01:30PM +0200, Mathieu JANIN wrote:
| Quote: | Hi folks,
i could seem idiot, but wouldn't it be nice to have a minimalistic bootstrap
CD with everything that is needed to compose your own liveCD (perharps an
enhanced version of DFSbuild, with "cleaning/compressing" feature like
localepurge and so ), and only a minimalistic set of what is needed for
basic forensic.
|
You could probably do that with dfsbuild and a little bit of scrubbing.
You probably just would want to do things like rm -r /usr/share/doc
/usr/share/man on the generated image.
-- John
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Mathieu JANIN
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:10 am Post subject:
Re: Package Selection for Debian Live
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Hi folks,
i could seem idiot, but wouldn't it be nice to have a minimalistic bootstrap
CD with everything that is needed to compose your own liveCD (perharps an
enhanced version of DFSbuild, with "cleaning/compressing" feature like
localepurge and so ), and only a minimalistic set of what is needed for
basic forensic.
With some precomposed packet-lists included to build rapidly the second
stage iso for people in a hurry.
Something that could be burnt on a business card or a pendrive ?
Matt.
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John Goerzen
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Package Selection for Debian Live
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On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 08:06:56AM -0700, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
| Quote: | Just checking: are you already aware of Debian From
Scratch (DFS), which
already does this?
http://people.debian.org/~jgoerzen/dfs/
At nearly 1/2 gigabyte you can hardly call DFS a
recovery cd...
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Why not?
But also, remember that you can build your own images with dfsbuild,
that include the exact set of packages you want.
The idea with my DFS image is that you have it burned in advance, and
that it has all the tools you need to recover. And I really try to
include *all* the tools. For example, with the live DFS CD environment,
you can:
* Use cdebootstrap to install a new sarge or etch environment
from the on-CD copy of .debs for the base system
* Reinstall your boot loader
* Compile a kernel (using solely the tools on the CD, plus a ramdisk
or filesystem where you can store the build tree)
* Complete all that is necessary for a full manual from-scratch Debian
install
* Work with XFS, ext2, ext3, reiser, JFS, reiser4, fat, etc. -- including
filesystem create and repair utilities
* ssh to and from the recovery environment
* Read manpages (including development manpages)
* View webpages, use FTP, use network diagnostic utilities, bring up
wifi
* Compile/run C, Perl, Python, OCaml, Haskell, and Java programs
* Work with zip, zoo, arj, tar, tar.gz, tar.bz2, etc. files
* Use darcs, git, cvs, subversion, or bzr to pull down code
* Set up a serial connection, including the option to use PPP
* Restore/use/make tar, amanda, afbackup, dump (and soon bacula) backups
* Burn CDs and DVDs, make ISO filesystems
* Repair your Asterisk installation
* Chroot to your system and be able to run most programs as-is
I am planning to integrate Xen and Bacula into the next revision of the
DFS image as well.
So, it still fits easily on one CD-R, so I don't see what the problem
is. I believe I have left off fluff, such as X, from this CD. And
very little starts by default. But I'm happy to take change
suggestions.
-- John
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Ottavio Caruso
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Package Selection for Debian Live
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At nearly 1/2 gigabyte you can hardly call DFS a
recovery cd...
Ottavio Caruso
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George Danchev
*nix forums addict
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:50 am Post subject:
Re: Package Selection for Debian Live
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On Thursday 06 July 2006 14:24, Andrew Vaughan wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, May 30, 2006 at 09:51:18PM +0200, Daniel Baumann wrote:
at the moment, we have two types of Live CD images:
* the small one which contains only packages of standard priority,
* and three larger ones, each of which contains one of the common
desktop-environments on it (gnome, kde, xfce).
Please consider making the small one suitable as a generic
backup/rescue/recovery disk. ie include some lower priority tools such as
ntfsprogs, xfsprogs, parted, partimage and dar.
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Since it is hard to predict people's definition for
backup/rescue/recovery/router/shuttle_launcher/whatever disk, you can
assemble your own custom CD/DVD images as you see fit by dfsbuild on i386,
amd64, alpha, and powerpc. The default cfg tends to be a rescue-orientated
one and it already saved my day several times.
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Andrew Vaughan
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:30 am Post subject:
Re: Package Selection for Debian Live
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| Quote: | On Tue, May 30, 2006 at 09:51:18PM +0200, Daniel Baumann wrote:
at the moment, we have two types of Live CD images:
* the small one which contains only packages of standard priority,
* and three larger ones, each of which contains one of the common
desktop-environments on it (gnome, kde, xfce).
|
Please consider making the small one suitable as a generic
backup/rescue/recovery disk. ie include some lower priority tools such as
ntfsprogs, xfsprogs, parted, partimage and dar.
Andrew V.
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Pedro Macanas
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:20 am Post subject:
Re: Package Selection for Debian Live
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----- Original Message -----
From: "John Goerzen" <jgoerzen@complete.org>
To: <debian-devel@lists.debian.org>
Cc: <live@lists.debian-unofficial.org>; <debian-edu@lists.debian.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: Package Selection for Debian Live
| Quote: | On Tue, May 30, 2006 at 09:51:18PM +0200, Daniel Baumann wrote:
[ crosspost to live, -devel and -edu; replies please to -devel ]
Hi all,
at the moment, we have two types of Live CD images:
* the small one which contains only packages of standard priority,
* and three larger ones, each of which contains one of the common
desktop-environments on it (gnome, kde, xfce).
And Window managers... |
Regards.
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Daniel Baumann
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 46
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Daniel Baumann
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:00 pm Post subject:
Re: Package Selection for Debian Live
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John Goerzen wrote:
| Quote: | How do you expect your project to be different? I'm just interested in
avoiding duplicate effort if possible.
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wrt/ the package selection/lists, we're heading for a "desktop" one
(more or less what knoppix is; but with both gnome and kde on it), and
some smaller, different ones e.g. for sysadmins (more or less like grml).
However, as I'm aware of your package list for DFS, I'm sure that there
will be not much doubled efforts. I'm just doing some ordering and
selection and I'll come up again with congrete suggestions in a few days..
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Address: Daniel Baumann, Burgunderstrasse 3, CH-4562 Biberist
Email: daniel.baumann@panthera-systems.net
Internet: http://people.panthera-systems.net/~daniel-baumann/
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Daniel Baumann
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 46
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John Goerzen
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Package Selection for Debian Live
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On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 08:58:41PM +0200, Daniel Baumann wrote:
| Quote: | John Goerzen wrote:
How do you expect your project to be different? I'm just interested in
avoiding duplicate effort if possible.
wrt/ the package selection/lists, we're heading for a "desktop" one
(more or less what knoppix is; but with both gnome and kde on it), and
some smaller, different ones e.g. for sysadmins (more or less like grml).
However, as I'm aware of your package list for DFS, I'm sure that there
will be not much doubled efforts. I'm just doing some ordering and
selection and I'll come up again with congrete suggestions in a few days..
|
Well, the thing about DFS is that dfsbuild is very flexible as far as
package selection goes -- it has a cfg file where you list your
preferred mirror and the debs you want to include. All those debs, plus
their deps, will be included on the generated ISO.
I've found it much easier to customize than Knoppix.
Not trying to force you into any one solution or anything, but I'd hate
for you to have to go to the effort to re-engineer a live CD build
system if what's out there already would work for you.
-- John
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John Goerzen
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Package Selection for Debian Live
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On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 08:41:26PM +0200, Daniel Baumann wrote:
How do you expect your project to be different? I'm just interested in
avoiding duplicate effort if possible.
-- John
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John Goerzen
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Package Selection for Debian Live
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On Tue, May 30, 2006 at 09:51:18PM +0200, Daniel Baumann wrote:
| Quote: | [ crosspost to live, -devel and -edu; replies please to -devel ]
Hi all,
at the moment, we have two types of Live CD images:
* the small one which contains only packages of standard priority,
* and three larger ones, each of which contains one of the common
desktop-environments on it (gnome, kde, xfce).
Now, we would like to create a decent package selection which reflects,
as well as possible, the users' desires. There should be one package
selection for a 700MB CD-ROM, and one for a 4.5GB DVD-ROM. With the
current squashfs compression, the actual filesystem size is about 3
times bigger than the packed one. This means that there can be quite a
few packages on it  I'm open for your suggestions...
|
Just checking: are you already aware of Debian From Scratch (DFS), which
already does this? http://people.debian.org/~jgoerzen/dfs/
-- John
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Hans-J. Ullrich
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Package Selection for Debian Live
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Well, I think, we first should think about, what aim this CD or DVD should
be. Which people we want to reach ? In the time, where are so many other
live-cds, like Knoppix, kanotix, Grml, DSL and so on, it is very difficult to
create an "all-in-wonder-"-stuff.
So my thougts are these:
People, who like KDE and GNOME want to have a fully graphic environment and a
an easy system. So pack on it all the stuff, which is useful for people and
what has graphical tools i.e. synaptics, openoffice, browsers and all the
other graphical stuff, whithout those people cannot work.
The other profile are people, who like the shell, and who are well known with
it. So put all the important things, which make life easier upon this CD. X
should be packed on it, too, and a small wm (I suggest fluxbox or XFCE)
Then, there are the professionels, they just need all the tools. For these
people there should be a multiboot-CD. I think of all the tools, they are in
i.e. GRML. X should be there natuarally as some tools are really better to
use in X. QTParted is such a tool. But thats not all. Thjese tools should fit
about 250MB at all, so it would be nice to have the same tools for the most
used architectures on this CD or DVD, too (AMD32, AMD64, PPC, Sparc etc.)
I suppose, there will be other groups of people, but for those, the other live
cds on the market should be good enough.
Ah, I will not forget: Please, no Installer on these CDs !!! IMO people shall
do a real installation, not a "rsync" like Knoppix does. Reason is: People,
who make a real installation will understand their system, and those people
will bring the Debian forward.
Best regards
Hans
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