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Package Selection for Debian Live
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daniele favara
*nix forums beginner


Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:50 am    Post subject: Re: Package Selection for Debian Live Reply with quote

On 5/30/06, Daniel Baumann <daniel.baumann@panthera-systems.net> wrote:
Quote:
[ crosspost to live, -devel and -edu; replies please to -devel ]

Hi all,

at the moment, we have two types of Live CD images:

* the small one which contains only packages of standard priority,
* and three larger ones, each of which contains one of the common
desktop-environments on it (gnome, kde, xfce).

Now, we would like to create a decent package selection which reflects,
as well as possible, the users' desires. There should be one package
selection for a 700MB CD-ROM, and one for a 4.5GB DVD-ROM. With the
current squashfs compression, the actual filesystem size is about 3
times bigger than the packed one. This means that there can be quite a
few packages on it Smile I'm open for your suggestions...


why not to use moinmoin + seeds ?


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Osamu Aoki
*nix forums addict


Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Package Selection for Debian Live Reply with quote

Hi,

On Tue, May 30, 2006 at 09:51:18PM +0200, Daniel Baumann wrote:
Quote:
[ crosspost to live, -devel and -edu; replies please to -devel ]

Hi all,

at the moment, we have two types of Live CD images:

* the small one which contains only packages of standard priority,
* and three larger ones, each of which contains one of the common
desktop-environments on it (gnome, kde, xfce).

Now, we would like to create a decent package selection which reflects,
as well as possible, the users' desires. There should be one package
selection for a 700MB CD-ROM, and one for a 4.5GB DVD-ROM. With the
current squashfs compression, the actual filesystem size is about 3
times bigger than the packed one. This means that there can be quite a
few packages on it Smile I'm open for your suggestions...

The practically essential packages are CJK-input method tools for people
who want to use languages such as Chinese, Japanese, Korean,...
(Possibly also for some people who want to switch between indic and
other interesting languages) Without it, we can not type in text in our
languages.

"scim" tool chain or "uim" tool chain is most modern and they should work
out of box, especially when used with "im-switch".

gdm (maybe other dm too) has nice locale selection mechanism. I also hope
you to use UTF-8 and have enough fonts to display all the weired
languages like ours.

Just my 2 cents.

Osamu


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Gustavo Franco
*nix forums Guru Wannabe


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 102

PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Package Selection for Debian Live Reply with quote

On 5/30/06, Daniel Baumann <daniel.baumann@panthera-systems.net> wrote:
Quote:
Nico Golde wrote:
Would be useful if you could provide the package lists for
the two images so we can see whats already included and send
you patches.

The small one contains the standard system only, means, packages which
have Priority: standard and nothing more. That's about 80MB (the image
size).

The other ones do contains:

kde:
kde kdm x-window-system-core

gnome:
gnome-desktop-environment gdm-themes gnome-cups-manager
gnome-themes-extras rhythmbox synaptic gnome-screensaver gdm
x-window-system-core

xfce:
xfce4 gdm x-window-system-core


Hi Daniel,

I would like to suggest that you add tasks in tasksel using the
current ones as a start point (eg: gnome-desktop), writing fo example:
live-gnome-desktop. I've no idea how you're building the images, could
you explain to us ? Btw, use tasksel to extract and "install" the
packages there sounds sane. I'm CCing joeyh, because that would be
good read what's his opinion about this.

regards,
-- stratus


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Hans-J. Ullrich
*nix forums beginner


Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Package Selection for Debian Live Reply with quote

Well, I think, we first should think about, what aim this CD or DVD should
be. Which people we want to reach ? In the time, where are so many other
live-cds, like Knoppix, kanotix, Grml, DSL and so on, it is very difficult to
create an "all-in-wonder-"-stuff.

So my thougts are these:

People, who like KDE and GNOME want to have a fully graphic environment and a
an easy system. So pack on it all the stuff, which is useful for people and
what has graphical tools i.e. synaptics, openoffice, browsers and all the
other graphical stuff, whithout those people cannot work.


The other profile are people, who like the shell, and who are well known with
it. So put all the important things, which make life easier upon this CD. X
should be packed on it, too, and a small wm (I suggest fluxbox or XFCE)


Then, there are the professionels, they just need all the tools. For these
people there should be a multiboot-CD. I think of all the tools, they are in
i.e. GRML. X should be there natuarally as some tools are really better to
use in X. QTParted is such a tool. But thats not all. Thjese tools should fit
about 250MB at all, so it would be nice to have the same tools for the most
used architectures on this CD or DVD, too (AMD32, AMD64, PPC, Sparc etc.)


I suppose, there will be other groups of people, but for those, the other live
cds on the market should be good enough.

Ah, I will not forget: Please, no Installer on these CDs !!! IMO people shall
do a real installation, not a "rsync" like Knoppix does. Reason is: People,
who make a real installation will understand their system, and those people
will bring the Debian forward.


Best regards

Hans





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Hans-J. Ullrich
*nix forums beginner


Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Package Selection for Debian Live Reply with quote

Well, I think, we first should think about, what aim this CD or DVD should
be. Which people we want to reach ? In the time, where are so many other
live-cds, like Knoppix, kanotix, Grml, DSL and so on, it is very difficult to
create an "all-in-wonder-"-stuff.

So my thougts are these:

People, who like KDE and GNOME want to have a fully graphic environment and a
an easy system. So pack on it all the stuff, which is useful for people and
what has graphical tools i.e. synaptics, openoffice, browsers and all the
other graphical stuff, whithout those people cannot work.


The other profile are people, who like the shell, and who are well known with
it. So put all the important things, which make life easier upon this CD. X
should be packed on it, too, and a small wm (I suggest fluxbox or XFCE)


Then, there are the professionels, they just need all the tools. For these
people there should be a multiboot-CD. I think of all the tools, they are in
i.e. GRML. X should be there natuarally as some tools are really better to
use in X. QTParted is such a tool. But thats not all. Thjese tools should fit
about 250MB at all, so it would be nice to have the same tools for the most
used architectures on this CD or DVD, too (AMD32, AMD64, PPC, Sparc etc.)


I suppose, there will be other groups of people, but for those, the other live
cds on the market should be good enough.

Ah, I will not forget: Please, no Installer on these CDs !!! IMO people shall
do a real installation, not a "rsync" like Knoppix does. Reason is: People,
who make a real installation will understand their system, and those people
will bring the Debian forward.


Best regards

Hans





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John Goerzen
*nix forums Guru Wannabe


Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Package Selection for Debian Live Reply with quote

On Tue, May 30, 2006 at 09:51:18PM +0200, Daniel Baumann wrote:
Quote:
[ crosspost to live, -devel and -edu; replies please to -devel ]

Hi all,

at the moment, we have two types of Live CD images:

* the small one which contains only packages of standard priority,
* and three larger ones, each of which contains one of the common
desktop-environments on it (gnome, kde, xfce).

Now, we would like to create a decent package selection which reflects,
as well as possible, the users' desires. There should be one package
selection for a 700MB CD-ROM, and one for a 4.5GB DVD-ROM. With the
current squashfs compression, the actual filesystem size is about 3
times bigger than the packed one. This means that there can be quite a
few packages on it Smile I'm open for your suggestions...

Just checking: are you already aware of Debian From Scratch (DFS), which
already does this? http://people.debian.org/~jgoerzen/dfs/

-- John


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John Goerzen
*nix forums Guru Wannabe


Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Package Selection for Debian Live Reply with quote

On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 08:41:26PM +0200, Daniel Baumann wrote:
Quote:
John Goerzen wrote:
Just checking: are you already aware of Debian From Scratch (DFS), which
already does this? http://people.debian.org/~jgoerzen/dfs/

yep.

How do you expect your project to be different? I'm just interested in
avoiding duplicate effort if possible.

-- John


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John Goerzen
*nix forums Guru Wannabe


Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Package Selection for Debian Live Reply with quote

On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 08:58:41PM +0200, Daniel Baumann wrote:
Quote:
John Goerzen wrote:
How do you expect your project to be different? I'm just interested in
avoiding duplicate effort if possible.

wrt/ the package selection/lists, we're heading for a "desktop" one
(more or less what knoppix is; but with both gnome and kde on it), and
some smaller, different ones e.g. for sysadmins (more or less like grml).

However, as I'm aware of your package list for DFS, I'm sure that there
will be not much doubled efforts. I'm just doing some ordering and
selection and I'll come up again with congrete suggestions in a few days..

Well, the thing about DFS is that dfsbuild is very flexible as far as
package selection goes -- it has a cfg file where you list your
preferred mirror and the debs you want to include. All those debs, plus
their deps, will be included on the generated ISO.

I've found it much easier to customize than Knoppix.

Not trying to force you into any one solution or anything, but I'd hate
for you to have to go to the effort to re-engineer a live CD build
system if what's out there already would work for you.

-- John


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Daniel Baumann
*nix forums beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Package Selection for Debian Live Reply with quote

John Goerzen wrote:
Quote:
Just checking: are you already aware of Debian From Scratch (DFS), which
already does this? http://people.debian.org/~jgoerzen/dfs/

yep.

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Address: Daniel Baumann, Burgunderstrasse 3, CH-4562 Biberist
Email: daniel.baumann@panthera-systems.net
Internet: http://people.panthera-systems.net/~daniel-baumann/


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Daniel Baumann
*nix forums beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Package Selection for Debian Live Reply with quote

John Goerzen wrote:
Quote:
How do you expect your project to be different? I'm just interested in
avoiding duplicate effort if possible.

wrt/ the package selection/lists, we're heading for a "desktop" one
(more or less what knoppix is; but with both gnome and kde on it), and
some smaller, different ones e.g. for sysadmins (more or less like grml).

However, as I'm aware of your package list for DFS, I'm sure that there
will be not much doubled efforts. I'm just doing some ordering and
selection and I'll come up again with congrete suggestions in a few days..

--
Address: Daniel Baumann, Burgunderstrasse 3, CH-4562 Biberist
Email: daniel.baumann@panthera-systems.net
Internet: http://people.panthera-systems.net/~daniel-baumann/


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Daniel Baumann
*nix forums beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Package Selection for Debian Live Reply with quote

John Goerzen wrote:
Quote:
Not trying to force you into any one solution or anything, but I'd hate
for you to have to go to the effort to re-engineer a live CD build
system if what's out there already would work for you.

Sure.. I appreciate much that you share your experiences, I and Marco
will definitely look at it, thanks for that.

--
Address: Daniel Baumann, Burgunderstrasse 3, CH-4562 Biberist
Email: daniel.baumann@panthera-systems.net
Internet: http://people.panthera-systems.net/~daniel-baumann/


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Pedro Macanas
*nix forums beginner


Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: Package Selection for Debian Live Reply with quote

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Goerzen" <jgoerzen@complete.org>
To: <debian-devel@lists.debian.org>
Cc: <live@lists.debian-unofficial.org>; <debian-edu@lists.debian.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: Package Selection for Debian Live


Quote:
On Tue, May 30, 2006 at 09:51:18PM +0200, Daniel Baumann wrote:
[ crosspost to live, -devel and -edu; replies please to -devel ]

Hi all,

at the moment, we have two types of Live CD images:

* the small one which contains only packages of standard priority,
* and three larger ones, each of which contains one of the common
desktop-environments on it (gnome, kde, xfce).

And Window managers...


Regards.


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Andrew Vaughan
*nix forums beginner


Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: Package Selection for Debian Live Reply with quote

Quote:
On Tue, May 30, 2006 at 09:51:18PM +0200, Daniel Baumann wrote:

at the moment, we have two types of Live CD images:

* the small one which contains only packages of standard priority,
* and three larger ones, each of which contains one of the common
desktop-environments on it (gnome, kde, xfce).

Please consider making the small one suitable as a generic
backup/rescue/recovery disk. ie include some lower priority tools such as
ntfsprogs, xfsprogs, parted, partimage and dar.

Andrew V.


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George Danchev
*nix forums addict


Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: Package Selection for Debian Live Reply with quote

On Thursday 06 July 2006 14:24, Andrew Vaughan wrote:
Quote:
On Tue, May 30, 2006 at 09:51:18PM +0200, Daniel Baumann wrote:
at the moment, we have two types of Live CD images:

* the small one which contains only packages of standard priority,
* and three larger ones, each of which contains one of the common
desktop-environments on it (gnome, kde, xfce).

Please consider making the small one suitable as a generic
backup/rescue/recovery disk. ie include some lower priority tools such as
ntfsprogs, xfsprogs, parted, partimage and dar.

Since it is hard to predict people's definition for
backup/rescue/recovery/router/shuttle_launcher/whatever disk, you can
assemble your own custom CD/DVD images as you see fit by dfsbuild on i386,
amd64, alpha, and powerpc. The default cfg tends to be a rescue-orientated
one and it already saved my day several times.

--
pub 4096R/0E4BD0AB 2003-03-18 <people.fccf.net/danchev/key pgp.mit.edu>
fingerprint 1AE7 7C66 0A26 5BFF DF22 5D55 1C57 0C89 0E4B D0AB


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Ottavio Caruso
*nix forums beginner


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Package Selection for Debian Live Reply with quote

Quote:
Just checking: are you already aware of Debian From
Scratch (DFS), which
already does this?
http://people.debian.org/~jgoerzen/dfs/

At nearly 1/2 gigabyte you can hardly call DFS a
recovery cd...



Ottavio Caruso
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