|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
You
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 38
|
 Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 4:22 am Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
|
|
|
Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler wrote:
| Quote: | In article <jD78g.72738$fd.33524@read2.cgocable.net>,
AlbaClause <you@cogeco.ca> wrote:
: I don't know if you know this or not, but market forces are not within
: SGI's
: control. SGI does not have the power to direct the marketplace and
: force
: consumers to take the direction that SGI finds best. It does not
: matter
: who your CEO is or who sits on the board of directors. Business is at
: the mercy of consumers -- not sometimes -- always!
I think it's very telling that there's virtually no big UNIX vendors that
are still relevant in the market today.
IBM is a software company, HP (Compaq, Digital) sells printers, Sun is
moving towards storage and software.
Apple's pretty much the closest thing to a UNIX vendor these days, and
they're selling pretty standard PCs now and making a big chunk of change
from iPod sales.
It's not the end of SGI, it's the end of big UNIX. SGI should be proud to
have been one of the last holdouts in a dying market.
Cheers - Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler :)
|
Wow! I was expecting people to jump all over me and question my opinion
that SGI scrap IRIX and move on. But you're absolutely right, Tony! SGI
is not finished and they probably won't be finished for quite some time to
come.
It's really rather naive for someone to think that SGI can revive something
like IRIX and MIPS based workstations in a world that has moved on to other
pastures. SGI just doesn't have the power to herd folks into seeing
things their way.
Even the largest software company on the planet, Microsoft, lacks the power
to force consumers into adopting products that consumers just aren't
interested in buying. Microsoft's history is littered with failed
products and market research that went nowhere fast. Microsoft has also
been guilty of missing the boat on a lot of things. The Internet, for
example. The visionary's at Microsoft didn't see any sustainable future
in products like web browsers, etcetera. Compare Microsoft's yesteryear
to their current Internet offerings!
It's really quite ridiculous to suggest that one company or person could
have so much influence over the buying patterns and impulses of consumers.
Consumers buy what they want... and the things that they don't want, sit on
store shelves until they're closed out or shipped back to the manufacturer.
Ah well...
--
--
People Against Corruption * Right Always Triumphs
Website: http://sarnia.selfip.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
-ks
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 19
|
| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 4:16 pm Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
|
|
|
AlbaClause <you@cogeco.ca> wrote in
news:gRd8g.36356$Hk1.12202@read1.cgocable.net:
| Quote: |
It's really rather naive for someone to think that SGI can revive
something like IRIX and MIPS based workstations in a world that has
moved on to other pastures. SGI just doesn't have the power to herd
folks into seeing things their way.
|
I have to disagree, not everyone is happy with the move. I know there are
quite a few companies that would rather run MIPS/IRIX. You forget,
customers were *forced* to migrate to intel/linux with the oficial end to
IRIX.
-ks |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
I R A Darth Aggie
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 36
|
| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 7:56 pm Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
|
|
|
On Wed, 10 May 2006 16:16:28 GMT,
-ks <kshuff@verizon.net>, in
<Xns97BF7E149FB44kshuffverizonnet@199.45.49.11> wrote:
| Quote: | + AlbaClause <you@cogeco.ca> wrote in
+ news:gRd8g.36356$Hk1.12202@read1.cgocable.net:
+
+ > It's really rather naive for someone to think that SGI can revive
+ > something like IRIX and MIPS based workstations in a world that has
+ > moved on to other pastures. SGI just doesn't have the power to herd
+ > folks into seeing things their way.
+
+
+ I have to disagree, not everyone is happy with the move. I know there are
+ quite a few companies that would rather run MIPS/IRIX.
|
Ok, fine.
Are they a sufficiently sized market to justify the costs of CPU
design and OS improvement? are they willing to pay extra for
a MIPS/IRIX solution?
Oh, they have a bottom line, too, and stockholders to keep happy?
--
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jonny_morrisuk@yahoo.co.u
*nix forums addict
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 64
|
| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 10:44 pm Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
|
|
|
| Quote: | 4) follow through on the plan to port IRIX to an Intel (IA64? I forget)
|
Considering what's already out there and established, I couldn't see
that working; I just don't think there's a big enough market for pure
unix on that sort of hardware (cheap PC's). Besides, it would leave a
bad taste in the mouth - keep IRIX on the quality hardware and let it
die with grace, if it must go. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
You
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 38
|
| Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 5:14 am Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
|
|
|
jonny_morris wrote:
| Quote: | 4) follow through on the plan to port IRIX to an Intel (IA64? I forget)
Considering what's already out there and established, I couldn't see
that working; I just don't think there's a big enough market for pure
unix on that sort of hardware (cheap PC's). Besides, it would leave a
bad taste in the mouth - keep IRIX on the quality hardware and let it
die with grace, if it must go.
|
I agree with you. It seems that a lot of people want to think that what
Apple is able to pull off, SGI should be able to pull off. However, that
is not the case. Apple and SGI cater to two entirely different markets.
Even when SGI loses customers, it's very seldom that they lose them to the
Macintosh platform. More often than not, SGI's customers are lost to
Linux and cheap PC machines.
I think it's really all about economies of scale and scale. PC machines
are really cheap to source, relatively simple to administer, abundantly
available, and are hugely supported. The SGI/MIPS converse, on the other
hand, is considerably more expensive, a little more involved in terms of
administration (due to limited familiarity in the marketplace), and offer
limited support.
I would tend to think that SGI would need to differentiate themselves from
the competition in some fashion, but they'd also need to offer the
economies, support, and familiarity that the competition offers. The
switch from MIPS to Intel processors gives them some mainstream
familiarity, which means that their systems are not completely foreign to
potential consumers. The switch from IRIX to Linux also offers a little
more mainstream familiarity, but also combines some economies in that the
OS is open source, and allows SGI to differentiate themselves from the more
common Microsoft products that a lot of enterprises might be looking to
move away from.
--
--
People Against Corruption * Right Always Triumphs
Website: http://sarnia.selfip.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jonny_morrisuk@yahoo.co.u
*nix forums addict
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 64
|
| Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 11:02 am Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
|
|
|
| Quote: | The switch from IRIX to Linux also offers a little
more mainstream familiarity, but also combines some economies in that the
OS is open source, and allows SGI to differentiate themselves from the more
common Microsoft products that a lot of enterprises might be looking to
move away from.
|
But is this what they'll do? I doubt it. Indications are that they'll
move away from consumer desktop computing altogether and go into server
and storage (as has been suggested and hinted at many times, in various
places not least of which is their own website). Maybe they'll run
such things using an SGI variant of linux, but I feel they will still
utilise less familiar hardware (i.e. not standard PC architecture)
which can only be a good thing if it means massively better
performance; this would separate their products from the mainstream and
perhaps give them an edge over the cheaper option, aimed at customers
who are willing to pay more for quality and speed where it counts. I
don't really know much at all about the server or storage markets, but
I'm sure it's just as fiercely competitive as the desktop market, so
good luck to them I say! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John-Paul Stewart
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 497
|
| Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
|
|
|
HvdV wrote:
| Quote: | IIRC there was at some point an 1Ghz R16k...
|
Indeed there was. I've seen it mentioned in three places:
1) An old post in a newsgroup from somebody who had received a price
quote on a 4x1GHz Tezro
2) Your newsgroup post to which I'm replying
3) http://www.sgi.com/products/remarketed/weekly_specials.html which is
the *remarketed* systems part of SGI's website, where they're offering a
4x1GHz Tezro (item #606).
It's interesting to note that the Tezro product page describes the
system as having "Up to four 800MHz MIPS RISC processors with 4MB L2
cache" (http://www.sgi.com/products/workstations/tezro/features.html).
Odd, given the fact that they're selling remanufactured systems with the
1GHz processor.
It sure seems as if SGI didn't want anybody to know about the 1GHz CPU.
I wonder why? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Toni Grass
*nix forums addict
Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 82
|
| Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
|
|
|
John-Paul Stewart wrote:
[4x1GHz Tezro]
| Quote: | It sure seems as if SGI didn't want anybody to know about the 1GHz CPU.
I wonder why?
|
Probably they just want to protect our life - or wouldn't you dream day
and night from such a beast? I would, definitely ;-)
Toni |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 139
|
| Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
|
|
|
In article <lbjej3-pp5.ln1@mail.binaryfoundry.ca>,
John-Paul Stewart <jpstewart@binaryfoundry.ca> wrote:
: It sure seems as if SGI didn't want anybody to know about the 1GHz CPU.
: I wonder why?
I'd guess that maybe they couldn't produce the chip in high enough quantities to
make it a regular product, so they'd keep it quiet and offer up systems on an
as-needed basis to certain customers.
Cheers - Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler :)
--
Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler - Master of Code-fu
-- nicoya@ubb.ca -- http://www.ubb.ca/ -- |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
You
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 38
|
| Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
|
|
|
jonny_morris wrote:
| Quote: | The switch from IRIX to Linux also offers a little
more mainstream familiarity, but also combines some economies in that the
OS is open source, and allows SGI to differentiate themselves from the
more common Microsoft products that a lot of enterprises might be looking
to move away from.
But is this what they'll do?
|
I don't know. You tell me. Is Windows an OS that is really built to
dominate the computing world ahead?
| Quote: | Indications are that they'll
move away from consumer desktop computing altogether and go into server
and storage (as has been suggested and hinted at many times, in various
places not least of which is their own website). Maybe they'll run
such things using an SGI variant of linux, but I feel they will still
utilise less familiar hardware (i.e. not standard PC architecture)
which can only be a good thing if it means massively better
performance; this would separate their products from the mainstream and
perhaps give them an edge over the cheaper option, aimed at customers
who are willing to pay more for quality and speed where it counts. I
don't really know much at all about the server or storage markets, but
I'm sure it's just as fiercely competitive as the desktop market, so
good luck to them I say!
|
I'm sure they'll figure something out.
--
--
People Against Corruption * Right Always Triumphs
Website: http://sarnia.selfip.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric Belhomme
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 31
|
| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 10:47 am Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
|
|
|
Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler <nicoya@ubb.ca> wrote in
news:nicoya-0DB257.22262509052006@shawnews.wp.shawcable.net:
| Quote: | It's not the end of SGI, it's the end of big UNIX. SGI should be proud
to have been one of the last holdouts in a dying market.
No big Unices still alive : |
- GNU/Linux
- OpenBSD
- FreeBSD
- NetBSD
These Unices are massivelly supported on almost all computer architectures
that has been or will be !
I think the market for _commercial_ unix is ended... Do you fell the
difference ?
--
Rico |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric Belhomme
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 31
|
| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 11:01 am Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
|
|
|
Malcolm Tobias <mtobias@wustl.edu> wrote in news:e3qgc8$m8k$1
@newsreader.wustl.edu:
| Quote: | Brent L. Bates wrote:
With out MIPS, what competition does Intel have?
AMD?
Intel/AMD competition does not produce new technologies, it just enhance |
x86 architecture (engraving, frequence, pipeling,...)
But nowadays there are no more alternatives CPU for computing usage :
- no more alpha,
- no more powerpc,
- no more mips,
- SUN continues to sell sparc architectures, but they began to produce also
IA64 servers and stations, so I predict they'll abandon SPARC too.
So the winner is.... Intel with its badly conceived x86 processors !
--
Rico |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
You
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 38
|
| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:43 pm Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
|
|
|
Eric Belhomme wrote:
| Quote: | Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler <nicoya@ubb.ca> wrote in
news:nicoya-0DB257.22262509052006@shawnews.wp.shawcable.net:
It's not the end of SGI, it's the end of big UNIX. SGI should be proud
to have been one of the last holdouts in a dying market.
No big Unices still alive :
- GNU/Linux
- OpenBSD
- FreeBSD
- NetBSD
These Unices are massivelly supported on almost all computer architectures
that has been or will be !
I think the market for _commercial_ unix is ended... Do you fell the
difference ?
|
I wouldn't even say that the market for commercial unix is dead. Mac OS X
seems to be doing quite well. And several of the heavyweight computer
vendors are betting their chips on operating systems like Linux. What
about companies like Red Hat? They're pushing open source operating
systems like Linux, with so many changes that Linux is almost becoming a
commercial OS.
--
--
People Against Corruption * Right Always Triumphs
Website: http://sarnia.selfip.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
You
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 38
|
| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:50 pm Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
|
|
|
Eric Belhomme wrote:
| Quote: | Malcolm Tobias <mtobias@wustl.edu> wrote in news:e3qgc8$m8k$1
@newsreader.wustl.edu:
Brent L. Bates wrote:
With out MIPS, what competition does Intel have?
AMD?
Intel/AMD competition does not produce new technologies, it just enhance
x86 architecture (engraving, frequence, pipeling,...)
But nowadays there are no more alternatives CPU for computing usage :
- no more alpha,
- no more powerpc,
- no more mips,
- SUN continues to sell sparc architectures, but they began to produce
also IA64 servers and stations, so I predict they'll abandon SPARC too.
So the winner is.... Intel with its badly conceived x86 processors !
|
There will never be any real competition in the processor business. At
least not the kind of competition that will spur any real innovation or
change. The computing world has gone and gotten itself into an x86
stranglehold.
When you have more than 90% of the world's computing devices using Intel or
Intel compatible processors, there's little to no chance that anybody will
be able to produce a superior chip that will be embraced by the masses.
Change is good... But change that costs money and requires the entire
world to change, is damn near impossible to accomplish.
If Intel based processors had less than fifty percent of the market, then
there would be the possibility that x86 processors would be replaced. I
don't really think that Intel even wants to stick with the crappy old x86
architecture, but they're prisoner to their own success. I'm sure that the
engineers at Intel realize and acknowledge that they can do a lot better in
the processor arena, but getting people to abandon the x86 series in favour
of something better... well, that's the problem.
--
--
People Against Corruption * Right Always Triumphs
Website: http://sarnia.selfip.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John-Paul Stewart
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 497
|
| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
|
|
|
Eric Belhomme wrote:
| Quote: | - SUN continues to sell sparc architectures, but they began to produce also
IA64 servers and stations, so I predict they'll abandon SPARC too.
|
Don't confuse the IA64 architecture (Itanium, as used by SGI) with the
x86_64 architecture (the 64-bit extensions to the classic Intel x86,
such as the AMD 64-bit chips and the 64-bit Intel Xeons). They are
quite different. Sun is *not* using IA64. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Google
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
The time now is Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:34 pm | All times are GMT
|
|
Business Gifts | Blog5 Game Cheats | Secured Loans | Web Advertising | Adverse Credit Remortgage
|
|
Copyright © 2004-2005 DeniX Solutions SRL
|
|
|
|
Other DeniX Solutions sites:
Unix/Linux blog |
electronics forum |
medicine forum |
science forum |
|
|
Privacy Policy
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Forum index
»
*nix
»
SGI/IRIX
