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Walter Roberson
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 1300
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 Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 3:28 pm Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
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In article <1147099227.062890.131430@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
mayamatt <mayamatt@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | http://www.sgi.com/company_info/newsroom/press_releases/2006/may/sgi_reorg.html
So if I am reading this correctly, those of us that happen to still own
SGI stock will now receive nothing...?
|
That does seem to be what it says.
I think that maybe stockholders would have a right to sue to block
the transaction, or at least a right for "standing" in the court
hearing. |
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You
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
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mayamatt wrote:
Nah, you'll continue to receive what you currently own: paper with no
value. hehe. Sorry!
I'm curious to learn how this reorganization will affect SGI executives with
stock options as part of their compensation package? I suppose they would
probably be entitled to the new common stock.
--
--
People Against Corruption * Right Always Triumphs
Website: http://sarnia.selfip.org |
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Freemania
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 9:21 pm Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
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It's funny. I sold all my SGI stock about 2 weeks ago on the advise of
a friend that
said that once a company gets to the point of delisting, there is no
point in holding on.
I'm not a big investor or anything but buying a 100 shares of SGI is
part of a longtime
fantasy (even if it was only .38USD a share ) 
It's sad to see this happened but they brought it upon themselves. I
still believe that
1) a focus on lower end workstations like the O2
2) cheaper developer tools/libs (sorry, developing for Irix was too
expensive)
3) a Java VM that was less than a full release behind every other
platform.
4) follow through on the plan to port IRIX to an Intel (IA64? I forget)
processor
could have saved this company.
Thoughts? |
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-ks
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 12:28 am Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
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"Freemania" <xaymaca@gmail.com> wrote in news:1147123310.723776.325900
@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:
| Quote: | It's funny. I sold all my SGI stock about 2 weeks ago on the advise of
a friend that
said that once a company gets to the point of delisting, there is no
point in holding on.
I'm not a big investor or anything but buying a 100 shares of SGI is
part of a longtime
fantasy (even if it was only .38USD a share )
It's sad to see this happened but they brought it upon themselves. I
still believe that
1) a focus on lower end workstations like the O2
2) cheaper developer tools/libs (sorry, developing for Irix was too
expensive)
3) a Java VM that was less than a full release behind every other
platform.
4) follow through on the plan to port IRIX to an Intel (IA64? I forget)
processor
could have saved this company.
Thoughts?
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1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) Yes
-ks |
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Gerhard Lenerz
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 1:52 am Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
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On Wed, 10 May 2006 00:22:11 -0400, AlbaClause wrote:
| Quote: | It's really rather naive for someone to think that SGI can revive something
like IRIX and MIPS based workstations in a world that has moved on to other
pastures. SGI just doesn't have the power to herd folks into seeing
things their way.
|
Unless there is something in the works that we don't know of yet I
guess IRIX and MIPS are done for good. A revival of this combination
is probably just money thrown away. throwing money
| Quote: | Even the largest software company on the planet, Microsoft, lacks the power
to force consumers into adopting products that consumers just aren't
interested in buying.
|
SGIs mistakes are in the past... I think the last couple of years
they tried in pretty reasonable ways on paths they have chosen years
ago.
Gerhard
--
SGI Hardware Info and Museum -- http://sgistuff.g-lenerz.de/
"Wanted Items" -- http://sgistuff.g-lenerz.de/collection/wanted.php
( iris / IRIX / IP22 ) |
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Gerhard Lenerz
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 2:13 am Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
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On 8 May 2006 14:21:50 -0700, Freemania wrote:
| Quote: | It's sad to see this happened but they brought it upon themselves. I
still believe that
1) a focus on lower end workstations like the O2
|
Right... it's nice to move to a highend niche, but you shouldn't forget
that you need developers which again need cheap workhorses. Yes, client
server is the thing sometimes... but I imagine there is plenty of market
for cheaper workstations even if you are aiming towards the higher end.
| Quote: | 2) cheaper developer tools/libs (sorry, developing for Irix was too
expensive)
|
Actually... if it's worth it 1000 US$ for the developer tools going
with a 10000 US$ system isn't too bad. If you know where you are going
and you are sure the paths will also be there tomorrow.
| Quote: | 3) a Java VM that was less than a full release behind every other
platform.
|
Can't comment on that... I have no gut-feeling on the importance of
Java in SGIs common environments.
| Quote: | 4) follow through on the plan to port IRIX to an Intel (IA64? I forget)
processor
could have saved this company.
|
No, that probably would have been a way to even faster ruin.
Gerhard
--
SGI Hardware Info and Museum -- http://sgistuff.g-lenerz.de/
"Wanted Items" -- http://sgistuff.g-lenerz.de/collection/wanted.php
( iris / IRIX / IP22 ) |
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You
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 6:58 am Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
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Freemania wrote:
| Quote: | It's funny. I sold all my SGI stock about 2 weeks ago on the advise of
a friend that
said that once a company gets to the point of delisting, there is no
point in holding on.
I'm not a big investor or anything but buying a 100 shares of SGI is
part of a longtime
fantasy (even if it was only .38USD a share )
It's sad to see this happened but they brought it upon themselves. I
still believe that
1) a focus on lower end workstations like the O2
2) cheaper developer tools/libs (sorry, developing for Irix was too
expensive)
3) a Java VM that was less than a full release behind every other
platform.
4) follow through on the plan to port IRIX to an Intel (IA64? I forget)
processor
could have saved this company.
Thoughts?
|
I'm not going to comment on the four points that you raise, as I really know
very little about SGI's business and the marketplace as a whole. However,
I will say that I absolutely love my SGI Indy and that I really want to get
more of these wonderful old machines.
Personally, I run Linux on my Indy and I'm quite happy with it. Linux does
not yet support some of the hardware that I'd like it to, but it is
generally a very stable operating system that is perfect for server use.
I think that SGI should just abandon IRIX and put more focus on Linux -- if
that's truly the direction in which they choose to go.
As for SGI filing for chapter 11 protection, I'm glad that they have done
so. The statement they released, says that they expect to emerge from
bankruptcy protection in about six months -- and with less debt to hold
them down. The new financing that they're getting will give them some
capital to play with, and allow them to more aggressively pursue their
reconstruction agenda. It's good to see that Dennis McKenna is exercising
this option while it's still one of many, as opposed to waiting for
bankruptcy to be an avenue of last resort.
As for SGI porting IRIX to Intel, why? Why waste limited time and
resources on an operating system that they've already chosen to abandon?
Especially when you consider just how outdated the OS is? I think SGI
would be much further ahead to hitch their wagon to an emerging OS like
Linux. That's where they should focus their attention. Make Linux
totally SGI friendly by building in the missing pieces that currently make
Linux unattractive to the IRIX diehards.
There's a plethora of legitimate reasons for SGI to finally kill IRIX and
move exclusively to Linux:
1) They need to show that they have a very clear and finite direction.
This cannot be achieved by being indecisive on their chosen OS. SGI
customers need to know that SGI is delivering product that will continue to
serve their needs well into the future. As a result of this, it makes no
sense for SGI to build on an OS that they really want to leave behind.
2) SGI has already lost many loyal customers to cheap Intel hardware that
runs the Linux operating system. If Linux is where the SGI faithful are
going, then it is not only wise for SGI to follow suit, you could
reasonably argue that SGI has an obligation to follow suit.
3) The Linux that IRIX faithful know and love does not have to be the Linux
that SGI adopts as their official OS. When you consider that Linux is an
open source architecture, it becomes readily apparent that there is much
room for customization and inclusion of proprietary technologies that would
make SGI Linux "best of class".
There's a whole host of reasons for SGI to just cease IRIX development and
fully embrace Linux. Not least of which, are the economic reasons: 1)
Linux gives a company like SGI a good starting point, where most of the
work is already done. For a company in bankruptcy, Linux could save them
a lot of development costs. 2) Linux is already marketed quite well by
legions of volunteers, websites, and publications. This free advertising
is a boon to companies wanting to peddle the OS for profit.
I'm going to end my post here; I really know very little about this stuff
and I don't want to make myself look too much like an idiot. ;)
--
--
People Against Corruption * Right Always Triumphs
Website: http://sarnia.selfip.org |
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Brent L. Bates
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 12:21 pm Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
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SGI's downfall started when the upper management decided SGI would no
longer be a leader but a follower of what ever the current trend was. They
got in bed with Micro$loth and Intel. They gave away or sold off anything
profitable or would make them a leader (MIPS, software, etc.). This caused a
lot of SGI's best and brightest to jump off the sinking ship causing major
brain drain. They dropped Micro$loth too late, but stayed in bed with Intel
and their much delayed vaporware and chucked MIPS. They chucked IRIX for the
Linux crap. Why should anyone stay with SGI? They can't even make up their
own minds what they are doing or where they are going.
When we were going to replace our current over decade old SGI servers
(which are still more reliable than our new hardware/software) with new
servers, our management said why buy SGI? We can buy Intel hardware directly
from Intel and download Linux for free. Why pay SGI more for the same thing
and I'd almost have to agree.
The only way SGI could stay alive is to:
1. PUSH MIPS/IRIX HARD. Get it back on top again.
(With out MIPS, what competition does Intel have? They have
no incentive to make better faster chips, because they have
no competition any more. All the competition has closed up
shop.)
2. Get back to having machines that range all the way from the
desktop to the big iron super computing servers and they ALL
run the same OS, so the same software worked on all levels of
hardware.
3. STOP being a follower of what ever is trendy and start being a
LEADER again.
Intel/Linux is a dead end and a road to extinction for SGI. SGI's users
have been saying this for years and management has ignored us. However, what
does SGI management care about? They made their millions and have run the
company into the ground. They can now jump ship. They got what they wanted.
They don't care if SGI continues or what happens to their workers or loyal
customers. They definitely do not care about their stock holders any more.
They just got rid of all of them. |
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HvdV
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 3:14 pm Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
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Brent L. Bates wrote:
| Quote: | The only way SGI could stay alive is to:
1. PUSH MIPS/IRIX HARD. Get it back on top again.
(With out MIPS, what competition does Intel have? They have
no incentive to make better faster chips, because they have
no competition any more. All the competition has closed up
shop.)
One can wonder how much slower an R18k on 65nm and *real* applications would |
have been compared to Itanium. Not that much I guess and per Watt, certainly
not. However, reviving the R18k and Irix is probably far too expensive.
What is probably a missed opportunity is failing to offer attractive upgrades
for current Origin systems. IIRC there was at some point an 1Ghz R16k...
| Quote: |
2. Get back to having machines that range all the way from the
desktop to the big iron super computing servers and they ALL
run the same OS, so the same software worked on all levels of
hardware.
Making desktops at the necessary low pricepoint requires a mass sales |
channel, they botched that by not understanding how important price is.
Still, when the big iron uses the same 'commodity' (no Itaniums!) processors
as a regular cheap Linux box this can still be realized.
| Quote: |
3. STOP being a follower of what ever is trendy and start being a
LEADER again.
In large single memory image systems? |
At the time they selected Itanium/Linux as successor for MIPS/Irix it seemed
a reasonable choice, at least to me. In retrospect it is easy to say they
should have continued longer with MIPS/Irix, with a switch to Power5 or
Opteron on Linux in 2005. IMO an Altix with many Power6s or Opterons would
have been easier to sell than an Altix with the ever delayed Itanium. I don't
know how many Altixes were sold the last half year, but current delay of the
dual core Montecito but must have caused a complete buyers stop.
| Quote: |
Intel/Linux is a dead end and a road to extinction for SGI. SGI's users
have been saying this for years and management has ignored us. However, what
does SGI management care about? They made their millions and have run the
company into the ground. They can now jump ship. They got what they wanted.
They don't care if SGI continues or what happens to their workers or loyal
customers. They definitely do not care about their stock holders any more.
They just got rid of all of them.
.... just my 2cts SGI share, Hans |
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Malcolm Tobias
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
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Brent L. Bates wrote:
| Quote: | With out MIPS, what competition does Intel have?
|
AMD?
Malcolm |
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jonny_morrisuk@yahoo.co.u
*nix forums addict
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
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| Quote: | With out MIPS, what competition does Intel have?
AMD?
|
They're hardly pushing Intel, and have nowhere near the performance gap
MIPS processors have over them. |
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HvdV
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 5:58 pm Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
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jonny_morris wrote:
| Quote: | They're hardly pushing Intel, and have nowhere near the performance gap
MIPS processors have over them.
*had* over them, and that is long ago. And part of it was due to the |
compilers which are now reincarnated for...AMD. See http://www.pathscale.com/
And don't forget IBM which has pushed out MIPS out of Sony PS with its cell
processor.
-- Hans |
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You
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 9:17 pm Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
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|
Brent L. Bates wrote:
| Quote: | SGI's downfall started when the upper management decided SGI would no
longer be a leader but a follower of what ever the current trend was.
They
got in bed with Micro$loth and Intel. They gave away or sold off anything
profitable or would make them a leader (MIPS, software, etc.). This
caused a lot of SGI's best and brightest to jump off the sinking ship
causing major
brain drain. They dropped Micro$loth too late, but stayed in bed with
Intel
and their much delayed vaporware and chucked MIPS. They chucked IRIX for
the
Linux crap. Why should anyone stay with SGI? They can't even make up
their own minds what they are doing or where they are going.
When we were going to replace our current over decade old SGI servers
(which are still more reliable than our new hardware/software) with new
servers, our management said why buy SGI? We can buy Intel hardware
directly
from Intel and download Linux for free. Why pay SGI more for the same
thing and I'd almost have to agree.
The only way SGI could stay alive is to:
1. PUSH MIPS/IRIX HARD. Get it back on top again.
(With out MIPS, what competition does Intel have? They have
no incentive to make better faster chips, because they have
no competition any more. All the competition has closed up
shop.)
2. Get back to having machines that range all the way from the
desktop to the big iron super computing servers and they ALL
run the same OS, so the same software worked on all levels of
hardware.
3. STOP being a follower of what ever is trendy and start being a
LEADER again.
Intel/Linux is a dead end and a road to extinction for SGI. SGI's
users
have been saying this for years and management has ignored us. However,
what
does SGI management care about? They made their millions and have run the
company into the ground. They can now jump ship. They got what they
wanted.
They don't care if SGI continues or what happens to their workers or
loyal
customers. They definitely do not care about their stock holders any
more.
They just got rid of all of them.
|
I don't know if you know this or not, but market forces are not within SGI's
control. SGI does not have the power to direct the marketplace and force
consumers to take the direction that SGI finds best. It does not matter
who your CEO is or who sits on the board of directors. Business is at the
mercy of consumers -- not sometimes -- always!
There's not a corporation in business history that has not made blunders in
their attempts to lead the market. Microsoft has made blunders in their
attempts to lead the market. Coca-Cola, McDonalds, the big three American
automakers, Apple Computer, IBM, etcetera, etcetera. The list is endless
and the lessons are very real: You can't force consumers to move in a
direction that they don't want to go!
Coca-Cola made a huge blunder with "New Coke." New Coke was Coca-Cola's
attempt at blazing trails in the Cola wars. And it failed! Big Time!
And Coca-Cola is not the only company that has failed to lead markets; all
companies throughout the history of business, have had failures. So it's
hardly fair or realistic to blame people like Bob Bishop for the woes of
SGI. Especially, when other corporations in the same marketspace are
feeling the pinch as well.
I know that there are going to be people that will say that only IRIX can
save the company, but the simple truth is that the majority of SGI's market
abandoned IRIX in favour of more economical alternatives. And it is highly
unrealistic to suggest that SGI would be throwing in the towel by giving up
on IRIX. To do so, would be akin to saying that Apple Computer gave up
when they abandoned the Apple II. The reality is that things change,
people change, needs change, and circumstances change. If people don't
want to buy IRIX, then SGI should stop trying to sell it. It's a
no-brainer.
Basically, you can try to sell lemonade to eskimos, but don't be too shocked
when they don't lineup at your northpole lemonade stand on that warm arctic
day.
--
--
People Against Corruption * Right Always Triumphs
Website: http://sarnia.selfip.org |
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Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 139
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 3:26 am Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
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In article <jD78g.72738$fd.33524@read2.cgocable.net>,
AlbaClause <you@cogeco.ca> wrote:
: I don't know if you know this or not, but market forces are not within SGI's
: control. SGI does not have the power to direct the marketplace and force
: consumers to take the direction that SGI finds best. It does not matter
: who your CEO is or who sits on the board of directors. Business is at the
: mercy of consumers -- not sometimes -- always!
I think it's very telling that there's virtually no big UNIX vendors that are
still relevant in the market today.
IBM is a software company, HP (Compaq, Digital) sells printers, Sun is moving
towards storage and software.
Apple's pretty much the closest thing to a UNIX vendor these days, and they're
selling pretty standard PCs now and making a big chunk of change from iPod sales.
It's not the end of SGI, it's the end of big UNIX. SGI should be proud to have
been one of the last holdouts in a dying market.
Cheers - Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler :)
--
Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler - Master of Code-fu
-- nicoya@ubb.ca -- http://www.ubb.ca/ -- |
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You
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 4:22 am Post subject:
Re: SGI files chapter 11
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Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler wrote:
| Quote: | In article <jD78g.72738$fd.33524@read2.cgocable.net>,
AlbaClause <you@cogeco.ca> wrote:
: I don't know if you know this or not, but market forces are not within
: SGI's
: control. SGI does not have the power to direct the marketplace and
: force
: consumers to take the direction that SGI finds best. It does not
: matter
: who your CEO is or who sits on the board of directors. Business is at
: the mercy of consumers -- not sometimes -- always!
I think it's very telling that there's virtually no big UNIX vendors that
are still relevant in the market today.
IBM is a software company, HP (Compaq, Digital) sells printers, Sun is
moving towards storage and software.
Apple's pretty much the closest thing to a UNIX vendor these days, and
they're selling pretty standard PCs now and making a big chunk of change
from iPod sales.
It's not the end of SGI, it's the end of big UNIX. SGI should be proud to
have been one of the last holdouts in a dying market.
Cheers - Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler :)
|
Wow! I was expecting people to jump all over me and question my opinion
that SGI scrap IRIX and move on. But you're absolutely right, Tony! SGI
is not finished and they probably won't be finished for quite some time to
come.
It's really rather naive for someone to think that SGI can revive something
like IRIX and MIPS based workstations in a world that has moved on to other
pastures. SGI just doesn't have the power to herd folks into seeing
things their way.
Even the largest software company on the planet, Microsoft, lacks the power
to force consumers into adopting products that consumers just aren't
interested in buying. Microsoft's history is littered with failed
products and market research that went nowhere fast. Microsoft has also
been guilty of missing the boat on a lot of things. The Internet, for
example. The visionary's at Microsoft didn't see any sustainable future
in products like web browsers, etcetera. Compare Microsoft's yesteryear
to their current Internet offerings!
It's really quite ridiculous to suggest that one company or person could
have so much influence over the buying patterns and impulses of consumers.
Consumers buy what they want... and the things that they don't want, sit on
store shelves until they're closed out or shipped back to the manufacturer.
Ah well...
--
--
People Against Corruption * Right Always Triumphs
Website: http://sarnia.selfip.org |
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