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Russell E. Owen
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 117
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Russell E. Owen
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 117
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 Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:49 am Post subject:
Re: Google Bobbles NSA wiretap searches
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responder wrote:
[bla bla bla]
I have been calling and e-mailing without response. Here are the contact
data I have been using. Perhaps someone else will have better success.
$ whois google.com
[Querying whois.internic.net]
[Redirected to whois.markmonitor.com]
[Querying whois.markmonitor.com]
[whois.markmonitor.com]
MarkMonitor.com - The Leader in Corporate Domain Management
----------------------------------------------------------
For Global Domain Consolidation, Research & Intelligence,
and Enterprise DNS, go to: www.markmonitor.com
----------------------------------------------------------
The Data in MarkMonitor.com's WHOIS database is provided by MarkMonitor.com
for information purposes, and to assist persons in obtaining information
about or related to a domain name registration record. MarkMonitor.com
does not guarantee its accuracy. By submitting a WHOIS query, you agree
that you will use this Data only for lawful purposes and that, under no
circumstances will you use this Data to: (1) allow, enable, or otherwise
support the transmission of mass unsolicited, commercial advertising or
solicitations via e-mail (spam); or (2) enable high volume, automated,
electronic processes that apply to MarkMonitor.com (or its systems).
MarkMonitor.com reserves the right to modify these terms at any time.
By submitting this query, you agree to abide by this policy.
Registrant:
Google Inc.
(DOM-258879)
Please contact contact-admin@google.com
1600 Amphitheatre Parkway Mountain View
CA
94043 US
Domain Name: google.com
Registrar Name: Markmonitor.com
Registrar Whois: whois.markmonitor.com
Registrar Homepage: http://www.markmonitor.com
Administrative Contact:
DNS Admin
(NIC-14290820)
Google Inc.
1600 Amphitheatre Parkway Mountain View
CA
94043 US
dns-admin@google.com +1.6506234000 Fax- +1.6506188571
Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
DNS Admin
(NIC-1340144)
Google Inc.
2400 E. Bayshore Pkwy Mountain View
CA
94043 US
dns-admin@google.com +1.6503300100 Fax- +1.6506181499
Created on..............: 1997-Sep-15.
Expires on..............: 2011-Sep-14.
Record last updated on..: 2006-Apr-10 16:15:58.
Domain servers in listed order:
NS3.GOOGLE.COM
NS4.GOOGLE.COM
NS1.GOOGLE.COM
NS2.GOOGLE.COM
MarkMonitor.com - The Leader in Corporate Domain Management
----------------------------------------------------------
For Global Domain Consolidation, Research & Intelligence,
and Enterprise DNS, go to: www.markmonitor.com
----------------------------------------------------------
$
Good luck! |
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Matthias Kirchhart
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:27 am Post subject:
Re: Google Bobbles NSA wiretap searches
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responder wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | Initial facts are that multiple searches on the subject (try: "NSA
wiretap") appear to work superficially, but fail to bring up more than the
first few choices of what are said to be over 100.
[...] |
Well, maybe that's because I don't live in the USA, but I get about half a
million results when I look for "AT&T EFF","EFF NSA" or "NSA wiretap".
Most of them are quite up to date.
I also get a "Everything about NSA. Many offers, look at ebay"  |
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Russell E. Owen
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:29 pm Post subject:
Re: Google Bobbles NSA wiretap searches
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Matthias Kirchhart wrote:
| Quote: | responder wrote:
[...]
Initial facts are that multiple searches on the subject (try: "NSA
wiretap") appear to work superficially, but fail to bring up more than
the first few choices of what are said to be over 100.
[...]
Well, maybe that's because I don't live in the USA, but I get about half
a million results when I look for "AT&T EFF","EFF NSA" or "NSA
wiretap". Most of them are quite up to date.
I also get a "Everything about NSA. Many offers, look at ebay"
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The search was for news articles, on news.google.com, which normally
groups "related" articles, giving a couple of lines from the first article
linked. Then there are usually several other links by title or
publication name, and finally a link to a page with all ("related")
articles. Perhaps this is all just some kind of new format change,
however, that last link in the group (now) actually links to the first
article instead of the separate page of articles. First noted Saturday,
pages served Sunday still have the incorrect link and thus prevent easy
access to the complete list of news articles.
Google news also ranks the groups of articles and places the most
"popular" near the top of the page. By late Saturday the group of
articles about NSA/AT&T wiretaps had been placed at the top of the page.
As of early Sunday that group of news articles was nowhere to be found on
the default pages served, either in the General pages or in the US or
Sci/Tech sections. The only way to find those articles now appears to be
to do a separate search. And as noted above, when a separate search is
done, the bottom link that apparently and usually points to a new page
with all articles listed, does not work as expected.
It appears for now that this subject matter has effectively dropped off
the radar of google news. Or, at least in the US...
Google has not responded to requests for comment. |
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Peter Pearson
*nix forums addict
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:14 pm Post subject:
Re: Google Bobbles NSA wiretap searches
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On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 21:44:38 -0400, responder <no@spam.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | Breaking News ...........
Google Bobbles NSA wiretap searches
The latest twist in the US Government's secrecy surrounding alleged
widespread illegal wiretapping appears in the popular and widely used
Google search engine. It seems that the customarily fast and flawless
Google engine is having trouble searching for articles related to the AT&T
lawsuit filed by the EFF.
Initial facts are that multiple searches on the subject (try: "NSA
wiretap") appear to work superficially, but fail to bring up more than the
first few choices of what are said to be over 100.
[snip] |
Interestingly, if one Googles for articles on the NSA interfering
with Google searches, any outcome can be interpreted as a positive
result.
--
To email me, substitute nowhere->spamcop, invalid->net. |
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Russell E. Owen
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 3:22 am Post subject:
Re: Google Bobbles NSA wiretap searches
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Matthias Kirchhart wrote:
| Quote: | responder wrote:
[...]
Initial facts are that multiple searches on the subject (try: "NSA
wiretap") appear to work superficially, but fail to bring up more than the
first few choices of what are said to be over 100.
[...]
Well, maybe that's because I don't live in the USA, but I get about half a
million results when I look for "AT&T EFF","EFF NSA" or "NSA wiretap".
Most of them are quite up to date.
[...] |
http://news.google.de/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=NSA+wiretap&btnG=Search+News
Results 1 - 10 of about 255 for NSA wiretap. (0.34 seconds)
Thank you! |
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Russell E. Owen
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 3:27 am Post subject:
Re: Google Bobbles NSA wiretap searches
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Peter Pearson wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 21:44:38 -0400, responder <no@spam.invalid> wrote:
Breaking News ...........
[...] |
| Quote: | Interestingly, if one Googles for articles on the NSA interfering
with Google searches, any outcome can be interpreted as a positive
result.
|
http://news.google.de/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=NSA+Google+searches
Results 1 - 3 of 3 for NSA Google searches. (0.10 seconds)
Excellent suggestion. Thank you! |
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Unruh
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 1166
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 3:42 am Post subject:
Re: Google Bobbles NSA wiretap searches
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responder <no@spam.invalid> writes:
| Quote: | Matthias Kirchhart wrote:
responder wrote:
[...]
Initial facts are that multiple searches on the subject (try: "NSA
wiretap") appear to work superficially, but fail to bring up more than the
first few choices of what are said to be over 100.
[...]
Well, maybe that's because I don't live in the USA, but I get about half a
million results when I look for "AT&T EFF","EFF NSA" or "NSA wiretap".
Most of them are quite up to date.
[...]
http://news.google.de/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=NSA+wiretap&btnG=Search+News
Results 1 - 10 of about 255 for NSA wiretap. (0.34 seconds)
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And the same in Canada. |
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Russell E. Owen
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 5:04 am Post subject:
Re: Google Bobbles NSA wiretap searches
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Unruh wrote:
| Quote: | responder <no@spam.invalid> writes:
Matthias Kirchhart wrote:
responder wrote:
[...]
Initial facts are that multiple searches on the subject (try: "NSA
wiretap") appear to work superficially, but fail to bring up more than the
first few choices of what are said to be over 100.
[...]
Well, maybe that's because I don't live in the USA, but I get about half a
million results when I look for "AT&T EFF","EFF NSA" or "NSA wiretap".
Most of them are quite up to date.
[...]
http://news.google.de/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=NSA+wiretap&btnG=Search+News
Results 1 - 10 of about 255 for NSA wiretap. (0.34 seconds)
And the same in Canada.
|
http://news.google.ca/
Yes, thank you for that. This page does at least list the (group of)
stories as the top subject in the Sci/Tech section. (Comparison to the
news.google.com page I am served here in the US does not show that group
of stories at all, anywhere.) But the problem on this page is that the
link that I get ("all 129 related") points not to a page linking 129
stories, but instead to the page containing the first story in the group.
These are dynamically generated pages, so what you get a few minutes later
may be different in any case. But perhaps you might be kind enough to
confirm if that (said) link does in fact get you a page with the "129
related" stories, or if, like me, it points instead to the first story in
the group.
The site in germany does give me a list, 255 stories at last count, IIRC.
Thanks. |
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Russell E. Owen
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 5:07 am Post subject:
Re: Google Bobbles NSA wiretap searches
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Correction: Germany |
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Unruh
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 1166
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 5:28 am Post subject:
Re: Google Bobbles NSA wiretap searches
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responder <no@spam.invalid> writes:
| Quote: | Unruh wrote:
responder <no@spam.invalid> writes:
Matthias Kirchhart wrote:
responder wrote:
[...]
Initial facts are that multiple searches on the subject (try: "NSA
wiretap") appear to work superficially, but fail to bring up more than the
first few choices of what are said to be over 100.
[...]
Well, maybe that's because I don't live in the USA, but I get about half a
million results when I look for "AT&T EFF","EFF NSA" or "NSA wiretap".
Most of them are quite up to date.
[...]
http://news.google.de/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=NSA+wiretap&btnG=Search+News
Results 1 - 10 of about 255 for NSA wiretap. (0.34 seconds)
And the same in Canada.
http://news.google.ca/
Yes, thank you for that. This page does at least list the (group of)
stories as the top subject in the Sci/Tech section. (Comparison to the
news.google.com page I am served here in the US does not show that group
of stories at all, anywhere.) But the problem on this page is that the
link that I get ("all 129 related") points not to a page linking 129
stories, but instead to the page containing the first story in the group.
|
If you click on "Linux Electrons" you get the first. If you click on "129
related" you get a page with a bunch of links (I did not count them but it
says 1-29 so that 129 may be a case of the missing hyphen)
| Quote: | These are dynamically generated pages, so what you get a few minutes later
may be different in any case. But perhaps you might be kind enough to
confirm if that (said) link does in fact get you a page with the "129
related" stories, or if, like me, it points instead to the first story in
the group.
The site in germany does give me a list, 255 stories at last count, IIRC.
Thanks. |
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Russell E. Owen
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 6:29 am Post subject:
Re: Google Bobbles NSA wiretap searches
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Unruh wrote:
| Quote: | responder <no@spam.invalid> writes:
Unruh wrote:
responder <no@spam.invalid> writes:
Matthias Kirchhart wrote:
responder wrote:
[...]
Initial facts are that multiple searches on the subject (try: "NSA
wiretap") appear to work superficially, but fail to bring up more than the
first few choices of what are said to be over 100.
[...]
Well, maybe that's because I don't live in the USA, but I get about half a
million results when I look for "AT&T EFF","EFF NSA" or "NSA wiretap".
Most of them are quite up to date.
[...]
http://news.google.de/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=NSA+wiretap&btnG=Search+News
Results 1 - 10 of about 255 for NSA wiretap. (0.34 seconds)
And the same in Canada.
http://news.google.ca/
Yes, thank you for that. This page does at least list the (group of)
stories as the top subject in the Sci/Tech section. (Comparison to the
news.google.com page I am served here in the US does not show that group
of stories at all, anywhere.) But the problem on this page is that the
link that I get ("all 129 related") points not to a page linking 129
stories, but instead to the page containing the first story in the group.
If you click on "Linux Electrons" you get the first. If you click on "129
related" you get a page with a bunch of links (I did not count them but it
says 1-29 so that 129 may be a case of the missing hyphen)
I'm coming in to news.google.ca from a node in San Francisco at |
the moment and I am still getting what I described above, different than
what you described. (I was coming from Atlanta and also from my own
location when I tried before.) The server in Germany was working while I
was on a node in Germany (haven't tried it directly from here, yet). No, I
don't understand it myself other than it is definitely hard-coded into the
HTML of the page I was served, or at least received. (Scripts are off.
Allowing scripts does not change this behavior.) Thanks for confirming.
| Quote: |
These are dynamically generated pages, so what you get a few minutes later
may be different in any case. But perhaps you might be kind enough to
confirm if that (said) link does in fact get you a page with the "129
related" stories, or if, like me, it points instead to the first story in
the group.
The site in Germany does give me a list, 255 stories at last count,
IIRC.
Thanks. |
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John
*nix forums addict
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 3:47 am Post subject:
Re: Google Bobbles NSA wiretap searches
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http://www.thestranger.com/blog/
You have to scroll down to the item called "Where's Stephen Colbert?"
(ignore the more recent one called "Here's Stephen Colbert".
It describes a speech made at the Press Club Dinner made on Saturday night
(April 29, 2006) in Washington. |
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Russell E. Owen
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 6:21 am Post subject:
Re: Google Bobbles NSA wiretap searches
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responder wrote:
| Quote: | Breaking News ...........
Google Bobbles NSA wiretap searches
The latest twist in the US Government's secrecy surrounding alleged
widespread illegal wiretapping appears in the popular and widely used
Google search engine. It seems that the customarily fast and flawless
Google engine is having trouble searching for articles related to the
AT&T lawsuit filed by the EFF.
|
Thanks to those who answered so helpfully, supportively and promptly.
After several days of analysis, it *appears* that the US administration
may be interfering with the normal operation of the google crawler to
prevent collection of links to sites and data that refer to the NSA
wiretap issue, and/or EFF. The scope involves "ECHELON", worldwide, and
more recently and more notably an unnamed NSA wiretap program ("the
Program"), which has extremely more powerful capabilities than the
"ECHELON" system. The "Program" (is believed at this time to) operate(s)
only from communications nodes or choke-points within the United States,
and therefore can only be assured of 100% capture of voice, FAX and data
transmissions that originate or terminate within the United States. The
actual capture might be well less than 100%. However, communications to
and from virtually any other countries can and occasionally will be routed
through nodes within the United States, and will be expected to be scanned
and processed by the "Program", above and beyond the relatively simple
capabilities of "ECHELON". Please note that these blockages are fallible,
are not at all insurmountable or absolute, and are more of a temporary
impediment to free communication among the members of the worldwide
internet community of users and participants. Google has recently been
criticized for its acquiescence to demands by the government of China to
implement content blocks on certain search terms within the country of
China. Google has acknowledged such action and justified it. I do not
have links to post here and now. However, please read to the end of this
message if you are willing and able to help document this issue where it
will not be generally blocked by google or anyone else. No decent minded
person would want to prevent the interception of any communication if that
interception would prevent a needless, senseless or politically
(financially) motivated _loss_ of civilian, non-participant life or
health. And I do not. That is not the same as saying I, you or we should
agree to wholesale surrender of all personal and confidential data to
those who do not themselves respect the rule of law. I will post some
preliminary suggestions and links below.
<emphasis> Somewhat more troublesome than simple interception and
unauthorized use of communications (even strongly encrypted
communications), is the real possibility of MITM (man in the middle)
activities, which are capable of (not just simple interception, but also
of actual) modification of the content of the communication. I believe
that has been documented in this thread. </emphasis>
Unchecked, this possibility has the potential to destroy confidence in
internet communications, and make same unsuitable for just about any
serious use. The key consideration is that this can be entirely checked
and ruled out as a possibility with some careful planning, and with the
free and willing cooperation of many very knowledgeable people.
Here is a "starter link" that contains many internal links to help any
reader get a fundamental understanding of the types of data theft that
have (long ago) been proposed and implemented. Note while reading that
the State of Florida is Governed by Jeb Bush, the brother of US President
George W. Bush.
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/000752.html
http://wikipedia.org/
Wikipedia is an independently maintained searchable archive Of articles
that are written, maintained and managed by knowledgeable users worldwide.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=NSA+wiretap&go=Go
I have never written or edited a wikipedia article, but understand that
anyone can do so. It is protected from malicious entries by a watchdog
system. I suggest that related subjects of general interest could be
documented here, and searched and found independently of any commercial or
governmental agencies.
I hope other readers will find this subject to be worthy of some time and
effort. Here are some additional links, in no particular order.
eff.org
aclu.org
ccr.org
tor.org
There are many other links to sources of valuably related information. And
I wish I could cite them all.
I feel that this message is very inadequate by itself for the task at
hand, but well worth the effort. If I could only learn to write more
clearly and concisely, I am sure you all would more easily appreciate the
importance that I attach to this issue. To the extent that each reader
can understand the need, I sincerely and urgently request your help, one
and all.
To John: The Lady was watching the show and it was hilarious, but I could
not stand to watch it. I am glad he and his clique were uncomfortable and
irritated. Laughing at him or this is not sufficient, not appropriate.
This is felonious. And I am personally aggrieved and severely and
personally offended. In the vernacular: I am BULLSHIT! ... This offense
can be overcome but not before people of the world can communicate freely
among ourselves. I think that you know that, and that I appreciate your
kind support. ... "So I so say." It was my sister's birthday Tuesday. And
while I was writing her an e-mail message, while I was calling her message
service, I was thinking ... "This is being copied and listened to by the
spooks, who have no permission to do that. They could change any of it on
the fly before it gets to her." ... "What if it were critical data?????!!"
Rather than trying to break everyone into full, strong encryption all at
the same time, I will try to suggest something simpler, which is as a
standard (an easy standard) whereby:
1. A message or document is written and saved to file. The md5 sum or
other type of validation checksum is generated.
2. The message is sent by conventional methods. The receiver checks the
md5 sum or other type of validation checksum.
3. The originating and receiving checksums are exchanged via unrelated
methods.
4. The sender and receiver now know if the message was received as sent.
Full, strong encryption will not prevent the "Program" from taking the
data. The checksum exchange will only allow us to know that the message
was in fact received as sent. ...Lots more work than before, but just a
#1 suggestion.
Thanks to all for reading.
| Quote: | Telephone calls to the Google contact numbers and e-mails to their
contact addresses have not been answered. |
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John
*nix forums addict
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 4:33 pm Post subject:
Re: Google Bobbles NSA wiretap searches
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On Wed, 03 May 2006 02:21:18 -0400, responder wrote:
(snipped - please read responders full post)
| Quote: |
To John: The Lady was watching the show and it was hilarious, but I could
not stand to watch it. I am glad he and his clique were uncomfortable and
irritated. Laughing at him or this is not sufficient, not appropriate.
This is felonious.
|
My purpose was not to make fun of the president - he has gone way past
funny. The barb laden speech received *no coverage* in the mainstream
press. There were stinging barbs directed at the press itself. I hope
their faces were red and it causes them to get some backbone. The
mainstream press is starting to get a reputation as a de-facto censorship
agency for the Bush Administration.
Muzzling the press is similar or part of the same process as muzzling
google. Not a good thing.
But see this:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/04/30/bush_challenges_hundreds_of_laws/
The author (Charlie Savage) documents the administration's attitude that
"it will be the judge of what laws we are governed by and how they are
interpreted".
Without rule of law there is *rule by men* and no security from unlawful
arrest, imprisonment or even torture.
This is getting scarier by the day. I think the President may want to
show that he has "the balls" to launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike
against Iran - for the improved security of freedom loving people, of
course.
Best wishes from the rumble seat. |
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