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Ian
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1615
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 Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:45 am Post subject:
Re: Training Classroom Multiboot Cloning
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Harry331 wrote:
| Quote: | Ian Collins wrote...
Harry331 wrote:
Ian Collins wrote...
Harry331 wrote:
1. Connect external 300GB hard drives to a file server.
Why external?
Make it internal and fast, RAID or ZFS. This drive will
take a pounding with a class running VMWare virtual file systems off it.
If you have 10 classes, you need 10 Internal HDDs.
Well, you're right, external HDDs have their disadvantages.
Maybe hot swappable internal HDDs would be the solution.
Why not 10 subdirectories?
10 GB x 20 students x 10 subdirectories = 2000 GB :)
I'm not saying there is no HDD with such capacity.
Just hard to find, and maybe very expensive.
Or you can do strip volumes on multiple HDDs; it would end up
with multiple HDDs.
Sounds like a job for ZFS.. |
--
Ian Collins. |
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Harry
*nix forums addict
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:36 am Post subject:
Re: Training Classroom Multiboot Cloning
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Ian Collins wrote...
| Quote: |
Harry331 wrote:
Ian Collins wrote...
Harry331 wrote:
1. Connect external 300GB hard drives to a file server.
Why external?
Make it internal and fast, RAID or ZFS. This drive will
take a pounding with a class running VMWare virtual file systems off it.
If you have 10 classes, you need 10 Internal HDDs.
Well, you're right, external HDDs have their disadvantages.
Maybe hot swappable internal HDDs would be the solution.
Why not 10 subdirectories?
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10 GB x 20 students x 10 subdirectories = 2000 GB :)
I'm not saying there is no HDD with such capacity.
Just hard to find, and maybe very expensive.
Or you can do strip volumes on multiple HDDs; it would end up
with multiple HDDs. |
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Ian
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1615
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:18 pm Post subject:
Re: Training Classroom Multiboot Cloning
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Harry331 wrote:
| Quote: | Pete wrote...
I don't know why I didn't think of it before, but VMWare is the ticket!
We have an educational license for VMWare on WinXP so I think this is
the way to go, then it's just a matter of copying the image file across
onto the fileserver at the end of the class and copying it back at the
start.
One more idea to save you time and money.
You tell your students that each will be allowed 10GB of network disc
space quota on the school's network.
But they are *encouraged* to bring their own USB drives.
So that they have tons of disk space to use to build their
virtual OS. And they can bring them home; i.e. the VMWare images on
their USB drives.
And when they corrupt, drop or loose them? Being students, I wouldn't |
trust them with their own data!
Keep it secure and backed up on your server
--
Ian Collins. |
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Ian
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1615
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject:
Re: Training Classroom Multiboot Cloning
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Harry331 wrote:
| Quote: | Ian Collins wrote...
Harry331 wrote:
1. Connect external 300GB hard drives to a file server.
Why external?
Make it internal and fast, RAID or ZFS. This drive will
take a pounding with a class running VMWare virtual file systems off it.
If you have 10 classes, you need 10 Internal HDDs.
Well, you're right, external HDDs have their disadvantages.
Maybe hot swappable internal HDDs would be the solution.
Why not 10 subdirectories? |
--
Ian Collins. |
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Harry
*nix forums addict
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:00 pm Post subject:
Re: Training Classroom Multiboot Cloning
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Ian Collins wrote...
| Quote: |
Harry331 wrote:
1. Connect external 300GB hard drives to a file server.
Why external?
Make it internal and fast, RAID or ZFS. This drive will
take a pounding with a class running VMWare virtual file systems off it.
|
If you have 10 classes, you need 10 Internal HDDs.
Well, you're right, external HDDs have their disadvantages.
Maybe hot swappable internal HDDs would be the solution. |
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Harry
*nix forums addict
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:54 pm Post subject:
Re: Training Classroom Multiboot Cloning
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Pete wrote...
| Quote: | I don't know why I didn't think of it before, but VMWare is the ticket!
We have an educational license for VMWare on WinXP so I think this is
the way to go, then it's just a matter of copying the image file across
onto the fileserver at the end of the class and copying it back at the
start.
|
One more idea to save you time and money.
You tell your students that each will be allowed 10GB of network disc
space quota on the school's network.
But they are *encouraged* to bring their own USB drives.
So that they have tons of disk space to use to build their
virtual OS. And they can bring them home; i.e. the VMWare images on
their USB drives.
Costco sells 80GB 2.5" USB HDDs for less than CDN$ 200.
I bet at least 50% students will prefer to bring their own USB HDDs. |
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Ian
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1615
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject:
Re: Training Classroom Multiboot Cloning
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Harry331 wrote:
| Quote: | Pete wrote...
I don't know why I didn't think of it before, but VMWare is the ticket!
We have an educational license for VMWare on WinXP so I think this is
the way to go, then it's just a matter of copying the image file across
onto the fileserver at the end of the class and copying it back at the
start.
Copying VMWare images back and forth is tedious and time consuming.
Here is a scheme that you can avoid it.
1. Connect external 300GB hard drives to a file server.
|
Why external? Make it internal and fast, RAID or ZFS. This drive will
take a pounding with a class running VMWare virtual file systems off it.
--
Ian Collins. |
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Harry
*nix forums addict
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:03 pm Post subject:
Re: Training Classroom Multiboot Cloning
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Pete wrote...
| Quote: | I don't know why I didn't think of it before, but VMWare is the ticket!
We have an educational license for VMWare on WinXP so I think this is
the way to go, then it's just a matter of copying the image file across
onto the fileserver at the end of the class and copying it back at the
start.
|
Copying VMWare images back and forth is tedious and time consuming.
Here is a scheme that you can avoid it.
1. Connect external 300GB hard drives to a file server.
2. On all PC'es that the students are using:
- disable write access to all local drives
- allow write access only to the network folders holding
their VMEare images
So, no student is allowed to screw up the local PC HDD partitions.
They can plug in USB keys to upload/download their stuffs on
their virtal OS.
IMHO, VMWare is better than MS Virtual PC in that the later has
difficulies working with USB devices.
Both VMWare and MS Virtual PC are no good for playing games.
For example, Sims 2 installed on virtual OS'es cannot run because
they need video card hardware to work with. |
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Casper H.S. Dik
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 1634
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:58 pm Post subject:
Re: Training Classroom Multiboot Cloning
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"Bob Lawn" <r.lawn@btinternet.com> writes:
| Quote: | vmware inc describe solaris x86 support as 'experimental', so i'd have a
look round the vmware forums and see just how far it goes.
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It works just fine; main reason why it is experimental is the fact
that it doesn't have native VMware tools.
Solaris 10 does come with the appropriate VMware graphcis driver as
part of Xorg.
Casper
--
Expressed in this posting are my opinions. They are in no way related
to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems.
Statements on Sun products included here are not gospel and may
be fiction rather than truth. |
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Bob Lawn
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:47 pm Post subject:
Re: Training Classroom Multiboot Cloning
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"Pete" <mr_peter_stevenson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1140951869.728404.71960@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | ... and if I remember correctly there is now a free VMWare player as
well.
I think I'll buy that bottle of whisky after all ... to celebrate!
Thanks all,
P.
don't want to rain on your parade, Pete, but i'd get solaris onto vmware |
first then crack the bottle!
vmware inc describe solaris x86 support as 'experimental', so i'd have a
look round the vmware forums and see just how far it goes.
it used to be necessary to download a driver from here:
http://chitchat.at.infoseek.co.jp/vmware/solsvga.html#top if you wanted to
get anything better than 640 x 480 resolution.
i had CDE 1024 x 768 working with this driver but the cursor always looked a
little bit strange (although it worked properly).
no other problems with this as far as i can recall, but it's been a while.
bob |
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mr_peter_stevenson@hotmai
*nix forums addict
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:04 am Post subject:
Re: Training Classroom Multiboot Cloning
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.... and if I remember correctly there is now a free VMWare player as
well.
I think I'll buy that bottle of whisky after all ... to celebrate!
Thanks all,
P. |
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mr_peter_stevenson@hotmai
*nix forums addict
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:02 am Post subject:
Re: Training Classroom Multiboot Cloning
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Thanks Guys!
I don't know why I didn't think of it before, but VMWare is the ticket!
We have an educational license for VMWare on WinXP so I think this is
the way to go, then it's just a matter of copying the image file across
onto the fileserver at the end of the class and copying it back at the
start. |
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Bob Lawn
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:51 am Post subject:
Re: Training Classroom Multiboot Cloning
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"Harry331" <harryooopotter@hotmail.co_> wrote in message
news:qRbMf.72638$H%4.35150@pd7tw2no...
| Quote: | mr_peter_stevenson@hotmail.com wrote...
Hi all,
We are looking to run a classroom of 20 or so machines as training for
courses in Linux, Solaris and Win XP based applications.
Does anybody here know of any applications (commercial or open source)
that would allow for the cloning and archiving of the machines system
state between classes?
Try using VMWare.
One student is allowed to use 10 GB disk space to create his/her
Operating System in the form of virtual machine.
A class of 20 students need only a 200+ external hard drive.
Ten classes need ten such external hard drives.
No need for backup / cloning / archiving. Save time. Save money.
yes,i agree with Harry331 - VMWare is worth looking into; great product. |
Also MS Virtual PC (formerly Connectix). From experimenting, it is easier to
get Solaris x86 onto this.
bob |
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Gary R. Schmidt
*nix forums addict
Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:04 am Post subject:
Re: Training Classroom Multiboot Cloning
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mein wrote:
| Quote: | In article <1140871900.998727.53090@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
mr_peter_stevenson@hotmail.com says...
Thanks mein!
I know, I know, it's a world of pain but what can you do!
That's why we get paid the big bucks, right? LOL
I'm thinking we invest in removable IDE hard drive caddies and spare
drives and we give the students their drives when they come in the door
and we keep it at the end of the class so they can return to the same
point next week.
A caddy for Solaris, one for Linux and the internal drive double boots
two versions of Win XP for daily use and one for CCNA materials at
night.
Easily swappable drives sound like the easiest plan.
Then again, maybe there's some other drive cloner out there that can
successfully clone Windows/Linux/Solaris tri-boot systems. I'm thinking
along the lines of forensics software designed to make a very precise
replica...
/ME shrugs
Just thinking out loud. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Hmmm, just noticed this thread - what about "Ghost 4 UNIX", at |
<http://www.feyrer.de/g4u/>
I've used to save and restore the S10 and Windows (FAT16, FAT32, and
NTFS) partitions on my laptop, it seems to work fine, if a tad slow.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
Armful of chairs: Something some people would not know
whether you were up them with or not
- Barry Humphries |
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mein
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:19 pm Post subject:
Re: Training Classroom Multiboot Cloning
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In article <1140871900.998727.53090@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
mr_peter_stevenson@hotmail.com says...
| Quote: | Thanks mein!
I know, I know, it's a world of pain but what can you do!
|
That's why we get paid the big bucks, right? LOL
| Quote: | I'm thinking we invest in removable IDE hard drive caddies and spare
drives and we give the students their drives when they come in the door
and we keep it at the end of the class so they can return to the same
point next week.
A caddy for Solaris, one for Linux and the internal drive double boots
two versions of Win XP for daily use and one for CCNA materials at
night.
|
Easily swappable drives sound like the easiest plan.
Then again, maybe there's some other drive cloner out there that can
successfully clone Windows/Linux/Solaris tri-boot systems. I'm thinking
along the lines of forensics software designed to make a very precise
replica...
/ME shrugs
Just thinking out loud. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. |
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