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Matthew Garrett
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 164
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 Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
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Glenn Maynard <glenn@zewt.org> wrote:
| Quote: | It doesn't matter if a piece of software works with non-free stuff, or even
if most of its use, by design, is for non-free stuff. All that matters is
that there exists some free stuff that it works with. For example, the
vast majority of the stuff that runs in Wine is non-free--but not all, so
Wine goes in main. The relative quantities aren't relevant.
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Even then, the freeness of material outside Debian is generally ignored.
We have multiple clients that only work with non-free servers.
--
Matthew Garrett | mjg59-chiark.mail.debian.devel@srcf.ucam.org
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Osamu Aoki
*nix forums addict
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: library packaging doc...
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On Mon, Jan 31, 2005 at 06:24:31PM +0100, Martin Schulze wrote:
| Quote: | Osamu Aoki wrote:
Or see and follow the instructions summarised on
http://master.debian.org/~joey/misc/webwml.html#ddp
PS: If you are in rush, I or javi should be able to add you as a pserver
access user just like other non-DD. We need to check out CVSROOT/passwd
file or so, I think. I have not done it.
Negative.
See above.
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Thanks for the clarification.
Can you clarify what these DDP CVS messages means
http://lists.debian.org/debian-doc/2005/01/msg00046.html
There passwd file has commit from your account 
Are they just bogus noise to list?
Or you only have write access? We do not. It is owned by cvs_doc group.
You mean cvs repouid patch limit access to the passwd file from
non-pserver users too?
Just curious.
Osamu
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Matthew Palmer
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Bug#293167: ITP: request-tracker3.4 -- Extensible trouble-ticket tracking system
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On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 02:38:10PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote:
| Quote: | * Matthew Palmer:
On Tue, Feb 01, 2005 at 06:27:30PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote:
* Lars Wirzenius:
ti, 2005-02-01 kello 15:25 +0000, Stephen Quinney kirjoitti:
This is the 3.4 series of RT, it can be installed alongside the 3.0
and 3.2 series without any problems. This release is a big
improvement over previous versions and features many new features,
substantial performance improvements and a significant cleanup and
restructuring of the codebase.
What is the a reason every version series of Request Tracker needs to be
packaged, instead of having a single request-tracker package that gets
updated with newer versions?
Request Tracker is a development framework for trouble ticket systems.
Users are encouraged to add new code to its (Perl) packages, and
there's an overlay mechanism to support this.
Unfortunately, this makes updates non-trivial, at least sometimes.
So you do a bit of testing before madly apt-get dist-upgrading your
production servers. What a concept.
As Andrew noted, we already do similar things for library packages.
There's a growing trend to provide different version which can be
installed in parallel for other infrastructure packages, too (IIRC,
PostgreSQL is heading in this direction, too).
As a user, I think this is very convenient. The ability to switch
back to a known-to-work version by tweaking a few configuration files
is reassuring, even if you've tested the new software version on an
indepedent machine.
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So archive bloat is not a problem for you, and "apt-get dist-upgrade" not
actually providing upgrades to the latest versions of everything is
perfectly fine? Ability to switch back is provided by backups and planning,
not by having a million versions of a package in the archive. If you really
want this, work out a way of installing multiple versions of the same
package through path redirection.
Libraries are the way they are because they are the way they are. If they
weren't the way they are they wouldn't be the way they are. If RT's a
library, start defining API compatibility and package it like a library --
lib* prefix and all, so people know what they're getting into.
- Matt |
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Glenn Maynard
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
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On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 11:41:55PM +0000, Matthew Garrett wrote:
| Quote: | It doesn't matter if a piece of software works with non-free stuff, or even
if most of its use, by design, is for non-free stuff. All that matters is
that there exists some free stuff that it works with. For example, the
vast majority of the stuff that runs in Wine is non-free--but not all, so
Wine goes in main. The relative quantities aren't relevant.
Even then, the freeness of material outside Debian is generally ignored.
We have multiple clients that only work with non-free servers.
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Err, that's what I meant:
| Quote: | (It's not clear whether data beyond the scope of Debian--such as comics
being downloaded--are relevant to this, either, but that's another debate.)
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--
Glenn Maynard
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Steve Greenland
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Bug#293167: ITP: request-tracker3.4 -- Extensible trouble-ticket tracking system
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On 02-Feb-05, 18:31 (CST), Matthew Palmer <mpalmer@debian.org> wrote:
| Quote: |
So archive bloat is not a problem for you, and "apt-get dist-upgrade" not
actually providing upgrades to the latest versions of everything is
perfectly fine?
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In the case of RT, yes.
I notice that there are several different versions of gcc in the
archive, and nobody seems to be bothered by that. Likewise, there are
several versions of python. There are, of course, good reasons for both.
RT likewise. It changes a *lot* between minor releases. Add-on tools
have to be updated, local scripts checked and fixed, etc. etc. etc. Best
Practical makes new bugfix releases to older versions, so they obviously
don't expect everybody to upgrade all at once.
RT is not an application. RT is a framework. It's quite reasonable to
have multiple versions of that framework available.
Steve
--
Steve Greenland
The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the
world. -- seen on the net
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Matthew Palmer
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Bug#293167: ITP: request-tracker3.4 -- Extensible trouble-ticket tracking system
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On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 07:04:40PM -0600, Steve Greenland wrote:
| Quote: | On 02-Feb-05, 18:31 (CST), Matthew Palmer <mpalmer@debian.org> wrote:
So archive bloat is not a problem for you, and "apt-get dist-upgrade" not
actually providing upgrades to the latest versions of everything is
perfectly fine?
In the case of RT, yes.
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I was discussing the issue in a wider sense in that paragraph, as Florian
was saying that multiple versions of random applications is a good thing.
| Quote: | I notice that there are several different versions of gcc in the
archive, and nobody seems to be bothered by that. Likewise, there are
several versions of python. There are, of course, good reasons for both.
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Yeah, lots of people write bug-ridden C and C++ code, and Python upstream
has never heard of backward-compatibility. Another example is PHP, which is
another example of a lack of planning taken to a horrible extreme.
I'm not happy about any of them. But pointing to them and saying "they can
do it, why can't we" is poor form.
| Quote: | RT likewise. It changes a *lot* between minor releases. Add-on tools
have to be updated, local scripts checked and fixed, etc. etc. etc. Best
Practical makes new bugfix releases to older versions, so they obviously
don't expect everybody to upgrade all at once.
RT is not an application. RT is a framework. It's quite reasonable to
have multiple versions of that framework available.
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So package it as the library it apparently is. The description of the
request-tracker3 package makes it sound like it's a ready-to-run
application. It doesn't even *mention* that it's a development platform
(unless you count the word 'Extensible', which is a now a content-free
weasel-word ever since XML arrived on the corporate scene).
If there *is* a front-end app ready for immediate use, then make that the
request-tracker package, and build the underlying libraries as a bunch of
lib*-perl packages with appropriate API versioning. As an added bonus,
someone else can then package their own RT-based trouble-ticketing system
and use your libraries, without needing to have the whole RT frontend
installed, a la the Mozilla Mess.
- Matt |
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Joe Wreschnig
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 26 Feb 2005
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Bug#293382: ITP: zen-cart -- simple SQL and php based e-commerce solution
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On Wed, 2005-02-02 at 15:46 -0500, Tim Peeler wrote:
| Quote: | Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
* Package name : zen-cart
Version : 1.2.3d
Upstream Author : Ian C Wilson
* URL : http://www.zen-cart.com/
* License : GPL
Description : simple SQL and php based e-commerce solution
Zen Cart is a php driven e-commerce solutions based on oscommerce
..
Zen Cart truly is the art of e-commerce; a free, user-friendly, open
source shopping cart system. The software is being developed by group
of like-minded shop owners, programmers, designers, and consultants
that think e-commerce could be and should be done differently. Some
"solutions" seem to be complicated programming exercises instead of
responding to users' needs, Zen Cart puts the merchant's and shopper's
requirements first. Similarly, other programs are nearly impossible
to install and use without an IT degree, Zen Cart can be installed and
set-up by anyone with the most basic computer skills. Others are so
expensive ... not Zen Cart, it's FREE!
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So what does it actually do, besides generate buzzwords?
--
Joe Wreschnig <piman@debian.org> |
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Joel Aelwyn
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
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On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 10:17:07PM +0100, Michelle Konzack wrote:
| Quote: | Am 2005-02-03 03:15:41, schrieb Sam Watkins:
1. People (including children) will get a nasty surprise when they
choose to download all the comics to see what is available.
My daughter had this problem several times...
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*looks innocent*
Say, whatever happened to debian-junior? Isn't that the sub-project that
was for exactly this sort of concern?
--
Joel Aelwyn <fenton@debian.org> ,''`.
: :' :
`. `'
`- |
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Joe Wreschnig
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 26 Feb 2005
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Bug#293167: ITP: request-tracker3.4 -- Extensible trouble-ticket tracking system
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On Wed, 2005-02-02 at 19:04 -0600, Steve Greenland wrote:
| Quote: | On 02-Feb-05, 18:31 (CST), Matthew Palmer <mpalmer@debian.org> wrote:
So archive bloat is not a problem for you, and "apt-get dist-upgrade" not
actually providing upgrades to the latest versions of everything is
perfectly fine?
In the case of RT, yes.
I notice that there are several different versions of gcc in the
archive, and nobody seems to be bothered by that. Likewise, there are
several versions of python. There are, of course, good reasons for both.
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As for Python, no there aren't, except for stupid upstream behavior
(Python upstream, and upstream for applications that don't keep
themselves up-to-date). Even then, the situation we had at one point
where Debian contained four versions of Python was totally stupid. GCC
at least has the excuse different architectures need different versions.
Why not hold up the examples of the tens of thousands of packages that
only have one version, even though they are development "frameworks"? To
pick one of extreme complexity, Perl. Perl migrations go smoother than
Python migrations, too...
--
Joe Wreschnig <piman@debian.org> |
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Steve Langasek
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 730
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Release update: kde3.3, upload targets, kernels, infrastructure
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Hi Goto,
On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 01:54:54PM +0900, GOTO Masanori wrote:
| Quote: | At Thu, 27 Jan 2005 07:30:57 -0800,
Steve Langasek wrote:
On Thu, Jan 27, 2005 at 01:19:36PM +0100, Christoph Berg wrote:
I upgraded a Woody box last week to Sarge's glibc/apt/dpkg/
openoffice.org/perl last week. The result was that Woody's mysql does
not work with Sarge's glibc. It complains about missing GLIBC_2.2
symbols. I've then also upgraded mysql and things were fine again.
$ ldd -d -r /usr/bin/mysqladmin
libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3 => /usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3 (0x4002a000)
libmysqlclient.so.10 => /usr/lib/libmysqlclient.so.10 (0x40073000)
libz.so.1 => /usr/lib/libz.so.1 (0x400a9000)
libcrypt.so.1 => /lib/tls/libcrypt.so.1 (0x400bb000)
libnsl.so.1 => /lib/tls/libnsl.so.1 (0x400e8000)
libm.so.6 => /lib/tls/libm.so.6 (0x400fc000)
libc.so.6 => /lib/tls/libc.so.6 (0x4011e000)
/lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x40000000)
symbol errno, version GLIBC_2.0 not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference (/usr/lib/libmysqlclient.so.10)
I don't know this problem is "missing GLIBC_2.2 symbols" issue. It
does not clear Christoph's problematic architecture.
|
This is the only warning shown on my system when installing woody
mysqlclient on sarge glibc, and is the only major ABI regression of this
kind I'm aware of between woody and sarge glibc. Unless Christoph can offer
more precise information about the symbols that were missing on his system,
I assume this is the problem he's referring to.
| Quote: | This is a bug in the woody libmysqlclient10 package, which should not have
been using errno in this way.
It also only occurs when the TLS-enabled glibc is used, which is only the
case if you are running a glibc kernel.
IIRC that was already treated specially until sarge one year ago by
Daniel.
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I don't understand what you mean here. How was it treated specially, and
why is it not treated specially now?
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer |
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Florian Weimer
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 418
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Bug#293167: ITP: request-tracker3.4 -- Extensible trouble-ticket tracking system
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* Matthew Palmer:
| Quote: | As a user, I think this is very convenient. The ability to switch
back to a known-to-work version by tweaking a few configuration files
is reassuring, even if you've tested the new software version on an
indepedent machine.
So archive bloat is not a problem for you,
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No, it's not. If we have incremental Packages files, it's a complete
non-issue for me.
| Quote: | and "apt-get dist-upgrade" not actually providing upgrades to the
latest versions of everything is perfectly fine?
|
In quite a few cases, yes. For example, if data formats change, it's
usually better not to try to upgrade automatically. Some maintainers
ignore this problem entirely (look at the recent libberkeleydb-perl
breakage for an example of the consequences).
There's no guarantee that "apt-get dist-upgrade" will in fact install
the latest version of anything, so I don't really understand your
criticism.
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Matthew Palmer
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Bug#293167: ITP: request-tracker3.4 -- Extensible trouble-ticket tracking system
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On Thu, Feb 03, 2005 at 10:04:33AM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote:
| Quote: | * Matthew Palmer:
As a user, I think this is very convenient. The ability to switch
back to a known-to-work version by tweaking a few configuration files
is reassuring, even if you've tested the new software version on an
indepedent machine.
So archive bloat is not a problem for you,
No, it's not. If we have incremental Packages files, it's a complete
non-issue for me.
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But we don't, so your problem still exists. There's also the problem that
an archive which doubled in size would, almost certainly, cause a problem
for a number of mirrors. Mirrors are kind of important for a distribution
the size of Debian.
| Quote: | and "apt-get dist-upgrade" not actually providing upgrades to the
latest versions of everything is perfectly fine?
In quite a few cases, yes. For example, if data formats change, it's
usually better not to try to upgrade automatically. Some maintainers
ignore this problem entirely (look at the recent libberkeleydb-perl
breakage for an example of the consequences).
|
I'm not familiar with the problem, but ignoring the problem is not the
correct means of dealing with it, and I'm not quite sure why you're
advocating doing so. The proper action is to make your system robust enough
to withstand simple data file format changes.
| Quote: | There's no guarantee that "apt-get dist-upgrade" will in fact install
the latest version of anything, so I don't really understand your
criticism.
|
Are you happy with having to find *all* of the applications in use on your
system and typing 'apt-get install <list of applications with new version
numbers>' every time you want to upgrade your systems? Because that is the
end game. I've already identified two of my packages that I'd like to put
onto a versioned package name basis. I'm sure that *plenty* of maintainers
would love to do the same thing with their not-trivial-to-upgrade packages.
- Matt |
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Bernd Eckenfels
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Bug#293167: ITP: request-tracker3.4 -- Extensible trouble-ticket tracking system
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In article <20050203093917.GA13297@hezmatt.org> you wrote:
| Quote: | Mirrors are kind of important for a distribution
the size of Debian.
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Hmm.. do we have numbers on d/l on all/some mirrors? I mean debian is not
that popular. So if we have a high download rate, this is mostly homegrown.
Greetings
Bernd
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Christoph Berg
*nix forums addict
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
upgrading mysql (Release update: kde3.3, upload targets, kernels, infrastructure)
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Re: Steve Langasek in <20050203060641.GB4721@mauritius.dodds.net>
| Quote: | symbol errno, version GLIBC_2.0 not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference (/usr/lib/libmysqlclient.so.10)
I don't know this problem is "missing GLIBC_2.2 symbols" issue. It
does not clear Christoph's problematic architecture.
This is the only warning shown on my system when installing woody
mysqlclient on sarge glibc, and is the only major ABI regression of this
kind I'm aware of between woody and sarge glibc. Unless Christoph can offer
more precise information about the symbols that were missing on his system,
I assume this is the problem he's referring to.
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Right. "mysqladmin ping" threw that warning and then died. Installing
Sarge's mysql packages made the DB work again. I didn't investigate
this any further, and the system was downgraded again in the meantime
(which was a pita due to tons of backports that were installed, but
that's another issue).
I can't say which other packages were affected, the only client for
that mysql DB is horde/imp(3), and that even seemed to work without
the DB.
The proper fix would have been to make the Woody mysql packages depend
on that specific libc6 version, but that's too late now. I doubt
making Sarge's libc6 Conflict: with the Woody mysql makes sense here,
but I can't think of another way to fix it now.
Should I give the upgrade another try in a chroot sandbox and then
file a (RC?) bug that mysql is not upgradable?
Christoph
--
cb@df7cb.de | http://www.df7cb.de/ |
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Andreas Rottmann
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: execturing libc
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Adrian von Bidder <avbidder@fortytwo.ch> writes:
| Quote: | On Wednesday 02 February 2005 06.35, Brian M. Carlson wrote:
I think you meant to ask, "Why would anyone want to execute the C
library?"
bmc@blackhole:~$ /lib/ld-linux.so.2 /lib/libc.so.6
Ok, this is off topic for this thread, but still, strangely:
avbidder@humphrey:~$ /lib/ld-2.3.2.so /lib/libc-2.3.2.so
Inconsistency detected by ld.so: rtld.c: 1259: dl_main: Assertion `_rtld_local._dl_rtld_map.l_prev->l_next == _rtld_local._dl_rtld_map.l_next' failed!
avbidder@humphrey:~$
(sarge/i386) on self-made 2.6.10 (Debian kernel source
The system works fine, no random failures or anything.
Same here (sarge/i386), kernel-image-2.6.8-2-k7 |
Rotty
--
Andreas Rottmann | Rotty@ICQ | 118634484@ICQ | a.rottmann@gmx.at
http://yi.org/rotty | GnuPG Key: http://yi.org/rotty/gpg.asc
Fingerprint | DFB4 4EB4 78A4 5EEE 6219 F228 F92F CFC5 01FD 5B62
A. Because it breaks the logical sequence of discussion
Q. Why is top posting bad?
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