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Sam Watkins
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 22
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 Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
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On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 08:54:18AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
| Quote: | Oh, are we turning into a children's distribution now?
I hope not.
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I think it's fairly obvious that we're a wanker's distribution, not a
children's distribution.
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Brett Parker
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
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On Thu, Feb 03, 2005 at 02:28:44AM +1100, Sam Watkins wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 08:54:18AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
Oh, are we turning into a children's distribution now?
I hope not.
I think it's fairly obvious that we're a wanker's distribution, not a
children's distribution.
|
Any chance that we can avoid statements like that, please. I agree that
the distribution should not alter to 'protect children' at all costs,
but we do *not* need the childish behaviour that has been displayed in
this thread, it does nothing to improve the quality of the debian
distribution and makes us look bad.
What we *really* should be concentrating on is getting the next release
(sarge) out of the door, and improving our release mechanism, not
debating wether or not this that or the other is a parent issue or a
distribution issue, the solutions that where put forward earlier seemed
sensible and to the point.
Thanks,
--
Brett Parker
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Sam Watkins
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
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On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 07:59:14AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
| Quote: | The average girl would rather have beauty than brains because she
knows that the average man can see much better than he can think.
Ladies' Home Journal
|
Your sig quote seems strangely appropriate to this thread, Ron.
I was trying to address two issues. Unfortunately few people seem to
understand these points. They have probably been watching too much
porn.
1. People (including children) will get a nasty surprise when they
choose to download all the comics to see what is available.
This is NOT a censorship issue, but a matter of appropriate
packaging. The way it is, it's like having a XXX magazine hidden
among the comic-books in a newsagent.
A "dosage-off" package would solve this problem, as would a
config-file that completely disables certain offensive comics, with
reasons given. We could use similar standards to those used for
"fortunes-off". (e.g. racist comics would also be "off")
This issue has already been explored, please don't post about it any
more.
2. Should Debian publish highly offensive content which is DFSG free?
I say "no". There are limits to what is acceptable in Debian.
The anarchist FAQ is acceptable. The bible is acceptable.
A package of hardcore pictures is obviously not acceptable,
Supposing I were to assemble a collection of public-domain porn,
would that be allowed to be included in Debian? Of course not.
Apart from anything else, we wouldn't be able to distribute the CDs
freely. I don't see "hot-babe" in sid yet, either.
I seriously doubt that "smutfest: 1001 porn downloader scripts"
would be approved for inclusion either. That probably wouldn't be
legal to distribute to minors either. In that case, it couldn't go
on the CDs. (If it did, it would be illegal to sell them from
ordinary shops in many parts of the world, e.g. Australia.)
I don't know where the law stands on this, but I think it is
borderline, it would probably be illegal to distribute
porn-downloader scripts to minors (over the counter) in many parts of
the world, therefore it could not go on our CDs.
The Sexy Losers script without a doubt falls in that category (it is
a script for downloading hardcore porn). It should not be in Debian.
This is also NOT an issue of censorship, nor is it a question of
trying to protect children. Obviously any child or adult who wants
porn can get it off the internet. The difficulty in modern society
is for anyone who wants to avoid porn, one would have to walk around
with eyes shut.
It is an issue of Debian's public reputation, and of the law. Does
Debian wish to be associated with pornography, to implicitly approve
it, by including programs designed to download and view it, or
including actual pornographic content? pornview, hot-babe and
dailystrips / dosage's Sexy Losers scripts are apparently "okay"
according to many Debian developers. I disagree.
Another issue - if a script is designed specifically to download
non-free content, shouldn't it go in contrib? According to Debian's
official view that anything made of bits is software, the scripts to
fetch the comics should go in contrib. Please correct me if I'm wrong
about that.
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Sam Watkins
*nix forums beginner
Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
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On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 03:33:53PM +0000, Brett Parker wrote:
| Quote: | Any chance that we can avoid statements like that, please.
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sorry, I couldn't resist!
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Eric Dorland
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
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* Sam Watkins (swatkins@fastmail.fm) wrote:
[snip]
| Quote: | 2. Should Debian publish highly offensive content which is DFSG free?
I say "no". There are limits to what is acceptable in Debian.
The anarchist FAQ is acceptable. The bible is acceptable.
A package of hardcore pictures is obviously not acceptable,
[snip] |
It is not at all obvious in fact. The bible and the anarchist FAQ have
probably caused more direct damage to the world. Please don't project
your morality on the project.
--
Eric Dorland <eric.dorland@mail.mcgill.ca>
ICQ: #61138586, Jabber: hooty@jabber.com
1024D/16D970C6 097C 4861 9934 27A0 8E1C 2B0A 61E9 8ECF 16D9 70C6
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS d- s++: a-- C+++ UL+++ P++ L++ E++ W++ N+ o K- w+
O? M++ V-- PS+ PE Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R tv++ b+++ DI+ D+
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Thomas Bushnell BSG
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 806
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
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Sam Watkins <swatkins@fastmail.fm> writes:
| Quote: | This is NOT a censorship issue, but a matter of appropriate
packaging. The way it is, it's like having a XXX magazine hidden
among the comic-books in a newsagent.
|
No. It's like having a sexy adult comic book "hidden" among the rest
of the comic books in a news agent. Which is, actually, not all that
uncommon.
Thomas
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Don Armstrong
*nix forums addict
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
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On Thu, 03 Feb 2005, Sam Watkins wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 07:59:14AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
The average girl would rather have beauty than brains because she
knows that the average man can see much better than he can think.
Ladies' Home Journal
Your sig quote seems strangely appropriate to this thread, Ron.
|
Unfortunately few people seem to understand these points. They have
probably been participating in too much religion.
1. People (including children) will get a nasty surprise when they
choose to download all the packages to see what is available.
[...]
2. Should Debian publish content I disagree with which is DFSG free?
I say "no". There are limits to what is acceptable in Debian. The
anarchist FAQ is acceptable. pr0n is acceptable. The bible is
obviously not acceptable,
Supposing I were to assemble a collection of public-domain relgious
materials, would that be allowed to be included in Debian? I hope
not. Apart from anything else, we wouldn't be able to distribute
the CDs freely. I don't see "bhagavad vita" in sid yet, either.
I seriously doubt that "belief: 1001 ways to subjugate your
populace" would be approved for inclusion either. That probably
wouldn't be legal to distribute to thinking adults either. (If it
did, it would be illegal to sell them from ordinary shops in many
parts of the world, e.g. Iran.)
[...]
Firefox without a doubt falls in that category (it is a program for
downloading religious materials). It should not be in Debian.
This is also NOT an issue of censorship, nor is it a question of
trying to protect children. Obviously any child or adult who wants
religious materials can get them off the internet. The difficulty
in modern society is for anyone who wants to avoid religion, one
would have to walk around with eyes shut, ears closed, and expunge
a good number of neurons.
It is an issue of Debian's public reputation, and of the law. Does
Debian wish to be associated with religion, to implicitly approve
of it, by including programs designed to download and view it, or
including actual religious content?
Ah, ad hominem and unfounded assumptions, how I love thee!
Don Armstrong
--
It seems intuitively obvious to me, which means that it might be wrong
-- Chris Torek
http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu
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Andreas Metzler
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: eleventh-hour transition for mysql-using packages related to apache
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[Cc ing Frankie as the foo@p.d.o addresses appear to be non-functional]
On 2005-01-31 Francesco Paolo Lovergine <frankie@debian.org> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 02:34:07PM +0100, Andreas Metzler wrote:
These four packages also link against both libpam and libmysqlclient10
and might experience segfaults when accessing MYSQL over PAM with
libpam-mysql if libpam-mysql switched to libmysqlclient12:
linesrv-mysql, pure-ftpd-mysql, proftpd-mysql and courier-authmysql
I am saying /might/ as it is entirely possible that one or more of
these link against libpam without using it.
(The two mentioned ftp daemons probably cannot switch to -12, as they
link against libssl.)
For what concern proftpd, it does not use libpam-mysql at all,
so I see no problem for that.
|
Hello,
Ehh. As maintainer of a PAM-using application you usually have no
control which PAM modules are used. You just ship the application with
a /etc/pam.d/foo using
@include common-<whatever>
and the *end-user* can (and probably will, if he installs stuff like
libpam-mysql) change these defaults to use modules of his choice.
cu andreas
--
"See, I told you they'd listen to Reason," [SPOILER] Svfurlr fnlf,
fuhggvat qbja gur juveyvat tha.
Neal Stephenson in "Snow Crash"
http://downhill.aus.cc/
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Michelle Konzack
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 540
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
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Am 2005-02-03 03:15:41, schrieb Sam Watkins:
| Quote: | 1. People (including children) will get a nasty surprise when they
choose to download all the comics to see what is available.
|
My daughter had this problem several times...
| Quote: | 2. Should Debian publish highly offensive content which is DFSG free?
I say "no". There are limits to what is acceptable in Debian.
The anarchist FAQ is acceptable. The bible is acceptable.
A package of hardcore pictures is obviously not acceptable,
|
A package downloading hardcore pictures from specific servers.
(wget or something like this does not fit this category)
| Quote: | I seriously doubt that "smutfest: 1001 porn downloader scripts"
would be approved for inclusion either. That probably wouldn't be
legal to distribute to minors either. In that case, it couldn't go
on the CDs. (If it did, it would be illegal to sell them from
ordinary shops in many parts of the world, e.g. Australia.)
|
Not only in Australia, you will have the same problem
in Germany and France and in the whole EU.
| Quote: | I don't know where the law stands on this, but I think it is
borderline, it would probably be illegal to distribute
porn-downloader scripts to minors (over the counter) in many parts of
the world, therefore it could not go on our CDs.
|
Right.
| Quote: | It is an issue of Debian's public reputation, and of the law. Does
Debian wish to be associated with pornography, to implicitly approve
it, by including programs designed to download and view it, or
including actual pornographic content? pornview, hot-babe and
dailystrips / dosage's Sexy Losers scripts are apparently "okay"
according to many Debian developers. I disagree.
|
Agreed
| Quote: | Another issue - if a script is designed specifically to download
non-free content, shouldn't it go in contrib? According to Debian's
official view that anything made of bits is software, the scripts to
fetch the comics should go in contrib. Please correct me if I'm wrong
about that.
|
I think yes.
Greetings
Michelle
--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi
0033/3/88452356 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) |
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John Hasler
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 687
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
|
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Sam Watkins writes:
| Quote: | Another issue - if a script is designed specifically to download non-free
content, shouldn't it go in contrib? According to Debian's official view
that anything made of bits is software, the scripts to fetch the comics
should go in contrib.
|
Only a miniscule fraction of Web pages are Free. I guess that puts Firefox
in contrib.
--
John Hasler
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Francesco Paolo Lovergine
*nix forums addict
Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 67
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: eleventh-hour transition for mysql-using packages related to apache
|
|
|
On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 09:49:31PM +0100, Andreas Metzler wrote:
| Quote: |
For what concern proftpd, it does not use libpam-mysql at all,
so I see no problem for that.
Hello,
Ehh. As maintainer of a PAM-using application you usually have no
control which PAM modules are used. You just ship the application with
a /etc/pam.d/foo using
@include common-<whatever
and the *end-user* can (and probably will, if he installs stuff like
libpam-mysql) change these defaults to use modules of his choice.
cu andreas
|
That's clear. I did mean proftpd-mysql does not use PAM to authenticate
against mysql, it uses mysql API directly... Of course a PAM module
can be used by user, but that's not of interest for licensing
compatibility.
--
Francesco P. Lovergine
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Thomas Bushnell BSG
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 806
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
|
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John Hasler <jhasler@debian.org> writes:
| Quote: | Sam Watkins writes:
Another issue - if a script is designed specifically to download non-free
content, shouldn't it go in contrib? According to Debian's official view
that anything made of bits is software, the scripts to fetch the comics
should go in contrib.
Only a miniscule fraction of Web pages are Free. I guess that puts Firefox
in contrib.
|
"miniscule fraction"? I don't know how you know that. Regardless,
it's irrelevant.
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Goswin von Brederlow
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 658
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Diversion of APT tools by dpkg-cross (apt-get,apt-cache,apt-config)
|
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Raphael Bossek <raphael.bossek@gmx.de> writes:
| Quote: | Hi,
I'm a active member of the dpkg-cross package part of the www.emdebian.org project.
A long outstanding feature request was to support APT for dpkg-cross. The realisation
result in diversion of apt-get, apt-cache and apt-config which is our CVS pending for
a new release to experimental as soon as the APT wrapper is stable.
The Debian Policy Manaual advice me to discuss this diversion here. Please feel free
to comment the consequences of this diversion.
dpkg-cross provide a extension for apt-get, apt-cache and apt-config with the command
line option -a|--arch where your cross-host architecture can be specified. This arch
is by default your architecture your are developing for using a cross-compiler suite.
If no architecture (-a|--arch) is specified the original implemenations apt-get,
apt-cache and apt-config are executed instead so nothink changes for those uses who
do not use this extension.
From my point of view the extension of the APT tools by diversion do not break today
functionality. It was one gole not to break today functionality!
--
Raphael Bossek
|
We were thinking of using -a|--arch for multiarch support in the
future to tell apt to prefer a certain architecture on install.
apt-get -a i386 install bash zsh screen ...
instead of the longer
apt-get install bash:i386 zsh:i386 screen:i386 ...
MfG
Goswin
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Goswin von Brederlow
*nix forums Guru
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 658
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Debian mirror scripts
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otto.wyss@orpatec.ch (Otto Wyss) writes:
| Quote: | Goswin von Brederlow <brederlo@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> wrote:
otto.wyss@orpatec.ch (Otto Wyss) writes:
Goswin von Brederlow <brederlo@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> wrote:
Sure? Anyway DpartialMirror "http://dpartialmirror.sourceforge.net/"
can.
I guess mirrorer doesn't care for bandwith saving as DpartialMirror,
correct me if I'm wrong.
Currently it will always redownload the Packages/Sources files as gzip
on every update to fix a bug in the apt methods. But I already
suggested only updating those that don't match the Release file. And,
unless you have an rsync method for apt, it won't rsync files.
Why there isn't there already a rsync method for apt is probably a
mystery nobody ever will solve.
|
It is not wanted due to rsync causing excessive server load.
If Debian would provide zsync files a zsync module could be provided
in a matter of days.
| Quote: | While rsyncing the Packages files sounds like a good idea to save
traffic it actualy is a bit insignificant compared to the daily
traffic of new sources and debs.
Do you mean there are up to 100 new packages each day? I get between 50
- 150 packages updated each day for just i386. Or do you mean there are
100 new versions? DpartialMirror handles new versions of packages
(sources and deps) in a way it save about 1% even when the packages are
normal gzip'ed. It would save around 10% - 50% with rsyncable.
|
New versions. The size of the Packages files is comparatively tiny
compared to all the debs. Even the 1% saving for rsyncing debs is
hardly worth it due to the extra traffic for the checksums and the
server load it causes.
zsync has the option of looking into gziped files and rsync them as if
they would be ungziped (while still just downloading chunks of the
gziped file). Its a bit more complex algorithm but works even better
than rsyncable files and rsync.
| Quote: | Is there any plan to add this feature to mirrored?
O. Wyss
|
I doubt it. Everyone can add support for it to apt and reprepo
(mirrorer) can utilize it. I think that is the best way.
MfG
Goswin
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Glenn Maynard
*nix forums Guru Wannabe
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 100
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
|
|
|
On Thu, Feb 03, 2005 at 03:15:41AM +1100, Sam Watkins wrote:
| Quote: | Another issue - if a script is designed specifically to download
non-free content, shouldn't it go in contrib? According to Debian's
official view that anything made of bits is software, the scripts to
fetch the comics should go in contrib. Please correct me if I'm wrong
about that.
|
It doesn't matter if a piece of software works with non-free stuff, or even
if most of its use, by design, is for non-free stuff. All that matters is
that there exists some free stuff that it works with. For example, the
vast majority of the stuff that runs in Wine is non-free--but not all, so
Wine goes in main. The relative quantities aren't relevant.
(It's not clear whether data beyond the scope of Debian--such as comics
being downloaded--are relevant to this, either, but that's another debate.)
--
Glenn Maynard
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